Arioch's Analyst Thread

The Archeaology tech is interesting though... Will it enable some kind of development of the ruins features? Like maybe early game you go through the ruins and get your goody but maybe at least some of the ruins are persistent afterwards and you can develop them like a resource later after Archy?

Very possible and good idea! City ruins from razed cities also come to my mind. But generally it seems a strange tech, considering that some buildings in your capital are 5000 years old and still in use at this point! ;)

They generally seem to make the map more "populated" and "filled" (City states, Natural wonders,...)

@Schuesseled: Good conclusion, too.
 
Very possible and good idea! City ruins from razed cities also come to my mind.

Yes - Like the random event you can get in IV where you might get some beakers towards a technology - which actually seems kind of far fetched to me...

But I could see a mechanic where either from the ruins or from a destroyed city the possibility that you could set up a dig on it later and perhaps get some extra culture and/or gold from the tile, with maybe a rare chance for some extra science. This would not surprise me at all given the archeaology tech. Not really sure what else it would be for! :crazyeye:
 
Hmm, tradition definitely seems like it could be an option (but it's always so difficult to tell since we're working with low-res pixelated video). Archaeology does sound like an interesting technology though, my guess is that there's 1 building, 1 wonder, and 1 tile improvement. Hmmmm.

Also, it's interesting to look at the tech tree, and how techs that are the same 'distance' on the tech tree can have incredibly different levels of prereqs.
For example:
Rifling requires 17 techs to research (basically everything on the bottom 2 tiers + archery/mathematics). Military tradition/science/whatever has about 32 techs needed to research it (almost everything up to it except the naval line!).
Steel also only takes 4 prereq techs (all of this isn't including the starting tech), while chivalry takes 11.
 
... Archaeology does sound like an interesting technology though, my guess is that there's 1 building, 1 wonder, and 1 tile improvement. Hmmmm.
...

I'm not nearly as adept at others at picking these things out, plus I still haven't seen "The Video" (pm me if you can send it to me please!) but maybe...

Building: Museum
Wonder: King Tut's Tomb
Tile Imp: Archealogical Dig: +1 Culture, +1 Gold, small chance for science boost

That'd be pretty cool!
 
I noticed a few things with diplomacy.

First, not sure if this had been confirmed, but Defensive Pacts are in. The tooltip in the attached screenshot looks like it says that Defensive Pacts last for 20 turns.
Spoiler :



Second, it seems rather easy to gain influence with a city-state.

Spoiler :


Give Geneva some gold, and the Cultured city-state hooks you up with +4 culture per turn. The notification on the lower righthand corner of the screenshot below pops up after gifting Geneva some gold, saying that you're now getting +4 culture per turn from Geneva in return.

Spoiler :


It seems like there could be many gradations of relationships with city-states, ranging from "influence" to "best friend." The more gifts you give them, then you get higher on the friendship ladder.
 

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Archeology before Steam Power?! What? Archeology started in the late 19th century. The steam engine and railways began in the 18th century. This is ridiculous.
The study of Greek, Roman and Egyptian archaeology got going in the 18th century, before the industrial revolution. Pompeii was being excavated in 1764. The Rosetta Stone was found in 1799 during Napoleon's expedition to Egypt.

A museum building certainly seems logical. Since science is now produced independently of gold and culture, they need more science-producing buildings.

mantis2007 said:
It seems like there could be many gradations of relationships with city-states, ranging from "influence" to "best friend." The more gifts you give them, then you get higher on the friendship ladder.
It looks like the city-state dialog says "Allied With: Nobody". It seems that you need to raise your influence to get to alliance, but that you get bonus culture just from a little influence. It has been said that a city-state can have only one "friend", but I don't know if by that they mean only one "ally". In other words, is it possible for multiple civilizations to try to raise their influence at the same time (and also get bonus culture/food/whatever)? It's not clear.
 
Here are a few screenshots of an initial start as the Iroquois. The map has been fully revealed, and fog-of-war turned off, but otherwise, this is pretty much how your first few moments of a new Civilization V game will look.

Main Menu - note that Mods is an option right there at the top along with Single Player, Multiplayer, Options, and the curiously named "Other" option.
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Single Player Menu
Spoiler :


Game Start! (Settler highlighted after clicking "Find Settler" on Advisor dialog)
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First city founded. Note the initial list of notifications on the right.
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Production choice dialog. It fills the lefthand side of the screen, which is a much more efficient use of space than Civ IV, where production icons arrange along the bottom of the screen.
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Technology choice dialog. Again, a beautifully designed interface, filling the left hand side of the screen with the choices currently available. Click Tech Tree to see the big picture. The tech currently under investigation shows at the top in a gold circle. That circle slides up underneath the top of the screen when not in use.
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It looks like the city-state dialog says "Allied With: Nobody". It seems that you need to raise your influence to get to alliance, but that you get bonus culture just from a little influence. It has been said that a city-state can have only one "friend", but I don't know if by that they mean only one "ally". In other words, is it possible for multiple civilizations to try to raise their influence at the same time (and also get bonus culture/food/whatever)? It's not clear.

Yes, I agree. By "best friend" I meant Ally. It seems like there are some complex possibilities for City State diplomacy. If your AI competitors can vie for Ally status at the same time that you do, how does the City State respond? Is it public knowledge when someone gives a gift to a City State? Can Allies change at any time, or are City States "locked" to an Ally permanently or for a set number of turns?

Lots we still don't know. But I like the possibilities that this City State idea opens up.

Dammit I want this game now.
 
Good job Mantis :goodjob:

The interface indeed looks very well thought out.

I also really like the background art with Atlas. Does anyone know if this is an existing statue or is the image specially created for the game?
 
Good job Mantis :goodjob:

The interface indeed looks very well thought out.

I also really like the background art with Atlas. Does anyone know if this is an existing statue or is the image specially created for the game?

Probably inspired by the statue of Atlas in Rockerfeller Center in NY given the art deco influences in the game

And where are those pics from mantis? Is there more video on the loose?
 
The study of Greek, Roman and Egyptian archaeology got going in the 18th century, before the industrial revolution. Pompeii was being excavated in 1764. The Rosetta Stone was found in 1799 during Napoleon's expedition to Egypt.

A museum building certainly seems logical. Since science is now produced independently of gold and culture, they need more science-producing buildings.

Yea , what people in the field refer to as 'modern archaeology' is when archaeology became an empirical science.

The creation of museums really has nothing to do with the field of archaeology though. Before the 19th century, collections of antiques and artifacts and collections of artworks, antiquarian books, etc. existed, but were all private, so one had to create an appointment with the holder of the collection and visit their estate.

Public museums were the result of a lot of trends in the late 19th century, including nationalism, city planning, democratic government. They were a product of the democratisation of culture in general, as it moved away from being a hobby of the aristocracy and became something that was considered important for the common society.

If I were to choose a tech for museum creation, I would choose Nationalism. The excuse for public museums was often as a celebration of national culture. Historicism would also work, but I don't ever expect to see that in the tech tree. Modern archaeology was actually a counter trend to that. Empiricism, anthropology, etc., were championed by anti-nationalist movements that wanted to argue that values like beauty were completely relative and attacked institutional (museum) culture as conservative and against progress.
 
units section said:
Archer

Movement: 2?; Strength: ?; Ranged Attack: ?
Technology: Archery

Note: The bombardment range for all units appears to be 2 hexes.

On your site Arioch, The note: should be changed to either "atleast 2 hexes" or "for all early units", as the latter tech Rocket Artilery fires 3 hexes. Also UU's such as the ballista or the longbow might have an extended range from thier standard counterparts.

civilizations section said:
Babylon* Hammurabi (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown)
(unknown)** (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown)
(unknown)** (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown)

*Steam Deluxe Edition exclusive
**Direct2Drive exclusive

Again another small correction, its should be changed to

Babylon* Nebuchadnezzar II (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown)
(unknown)** (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown)
(unknown)** (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown) (unknown)

*Steam & Direct2Drive Deluxe Edition exclusive
**Preium DLC confirmed (which will bring atleast 2 more civs late 2010.)

Babylon is now exclusive to D2D and Steam
The Preium DLC will be available to everyone at the same time, its just D2D's pre-order is giving it away for free.

I made a couple corrections too but you didnt see my post I guess :)
 
I noticed a few things with diplomacy.

First, not sure if this had been confirmed, but Defensive Pacts are in. The tooltip in the attached screenshot looks like it says that Defensive Pacts last for 20 turns.

This was already confirmed and more so than in the blurry footage of the closed demo.

Spoiler :
 
Hey, AriochIV. I love your website. It gives a great overview of what's going on.

I think you should add a "Modding" category as well to it. As I understand it, we don't know too much about the modding bit of Civilization V as yet though. We know that LUA will replace Python, however, and that maps from Civ4 will be easily imported into Civ5 (which is really grand news!).
 
The one thing I am most concerned about with city states is the liberation mechanic. It has been said several places that by liberating a city state, they will likely be your friend forever. The problem with this is that it sounds very prone to gaming. Take the example in the video. You're trying to be buddies with Geneva, and England declares war on them. Geneva might ask you to join the war, and maybe you agree. But if you're smart, you'll sit back and let Elizabeth take over Geneva, and the liberate it. I doubt the City State AI will adequately value and appreciate you defending them from initial capture.
 
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