Community Call to Power Project

chrome-rome said:
@Hyronymus: I never did like the corruption system of Civ 3. Besides, this can be circumvented by just puppet every city you conquer. I am a fan of war weariness though. When I was first thinking about this mod, I flirted with the idea of building the war weariness into the Governments by way of X% Unhappiness from Occupied Cities, but I disbanded the thought for one reason or another. When we look at the policies again - after the DLL is released - war weariness will be examined further.
Click to expand...

Yeah, war weariness could be cool for when we work on the policies :D
BTW I sent a PM with some ideas for one of the governments. :)
 
I think polution should be added too, it make the modern times more challenging and maby you could combine it with some extra's to enviromentialism (50% less chance of pollution to occur, 60% faster cleaning).

About the dll, I heard saying it will be released soon, is this true?
 
leeuw01 said:
I think polution should be added too, it make the modern times more challenging and maby you could combine it with some extra's to enviromentialism (50% less chance of pollution to occur, 60% faster cleaning).

About the dll, I heard saying it will be released soon, is this true?
Click to expand...

Good idea *filled for later use*. So the developer said "soon." The initial excitement about it has worn off, and now I see that soon is very relative. It could be within a month or by the end of the year. I'm hoping it's the first option, but there is still plenty that can be done in the meantime. :)
 
Chrome-rome: indeed puppeting every conquered city could circumvent corruption. Unless you put a limit on amount of cities you can puppeteer. But you also said you weren't a fan of the Civ3 corruption system so let's forget about it then :).

What would make it more difficult for large empires too is letting the hammers required to construct normal buildings be dependent on empire size. A similar setting already exists for National (and World?) Wonders.

If War Weariness ever makes it to the mod it shouldn't disappear easily and it should affect military production, battlefield yields and stability of your empire greatly. Is it i.e. possible to have cities declare indepence if you suffer unhappiness long enough? I only once had rebels appear in my nation, after India gave me an offer I couldn't resist (all his cities but one after having conquered two cities of him in one turn. My happiness couldn't keep up :D).
 
Haha yeah the AI does make boneheaded decisions like that. :crazyeye:

I think we can hold off on the empire splintering until we get some more basic things nailed down. And though I like the enthusiasm, I'm looking for ways to make the other victories better, not just the dominant one worse. It's probably going to take a creative solution to accomplish, but I think it will better in the long run.
 
One thing I would like to do when thinking about policies, is as you said to make certain policy trees unique, so instead someone going after culture or science victory.

So I will try to keep this goal of yours in mind. :)

When religion is added, that could make way for things like culture victories etc.
 
Don't you need to know which victory options people tend to select then, chrome-rome? I always play with all of then except Diplomatic (as you said that's not a serious option). And if people always play with World Domination as the only option, do you think any mod can change their minds on going for a Cultural or Space Race Victory?
 
The only problem with war weariness is, is that not every Civ got wearied by it. Many of the civs in this game made it a natural part of life, heck maybe some should get a peace weariness in place of that. Perhaps tying it to specific govnt types and such would make a good idea, since the people would get used to either war or peace as time passes. Then again, maybe not as some just seem much more prone to war and peace then others.
 
Well, first of all I would like to thank chrome-rome for really liking my ideas and adding me to the 'Thank U's' in the OP. I am highly honoured, sir! :king:

Yeah. Something like Fascism would have no, or very bear minimum war weariness. If it does get used I will try to incorporate it into the Governments.

I have some ideas, like Fascism with no (or very little) war weariness, Democracy and Communism with high war weariness. - Now I know what you are thinking 'Communism with high war weariness? Never! - well communism is about comradeship and worldwide brotherhood, so high war weariness would fit :D plus I was working on ideas for the Communist government and Socialism ideology today, and they are getting some nice candy, so I don't want them to have all these lovely bonuses PLUS low war weariness. But we shall see.
I am not sure what chrome-rome wants me to think about next. Maybe Fascism, but to tell the truth I think Fascism is cool the way it is right now (In the mod, not real life!!! :crazyeye:)
So I think I will look at Corporate and Capitalism. The commies should be happy with the changes to Communism/Socialism, so now to make the other group happy :D
 
War Weariness still gives me nightmares a decade later. Happiness is too easy to manage, and doesn't have a detrimental enough effect on the player. What about increasing the penalties? Somehow impose penalties such as strikes, riots, and civil wars. Does anyone remember Civ IV's revolution mod? Something similar. I know what you're going to say... happiness is empire wide. Yes, huge design flaw in my opinion. But you could work around it. Make different types of penalties more likely to appear in cities of certain size, or with certain tiles in their work radius. Coal miners strike... Cities on different continents declare independence... blah blah.

I'm just saying you could use the current happiness system to better effect without having to code and implement an entire new system.

Also... the easiest way to make it harder to take over the world is to make it harder to win wars in the field. Find ways to improve the tactical AI and the strategic AI. I can think of ten ways to do this off the top of my head. Unfortunately I don't have any idea how to mod.
 
Wouldn't War Weariness affect happiness then? That should be the easiest way for sure indeed.

I'm wondering, are the amount of turns you are at war with the same enemy be retrieved from game date and used as a War Weariness variable? Like 0-5 turns no War Weariness, 6-10 turns mild War Weariness (-2 happiness) etc. with the max being rebellism in your nation.

And cal loosing a unit cause 1 unhappiness i.e.?
 
Hm. I've been thinking about war weariness - and maybe this:
When you declare war, you instantly get 5 unhappiness (the number can change, it is just to simulate all the hippies getting angry at war :D) Then every, say, 5, 10, 15 turns (whatever number you think to be best) that you are at war, you gain 1 or 2 unhappiness. And if you lose a city then you gain some extra unhappiness (Since the population will be sad over the loss of a city), and maybe also when you conquer an enemy city you gain a little bit of happiness (the population happy over a victory), but not too much so as to defeat the point.

This is just an idea, so the longer you are at war, the more miserable your people get. And certain social policies can decrease this effect of 'war weariness', and some otheres increasing the bonuses of conquering. As I said not too much, but a long war will cause your Civilization to fall to pieces, and let normal game mechanics do the rest eg lost hammers, less combat effect, less growth, revolts ect :D


And... yay 100th post :king:
 
Nuclear Dude said:
Hm. I've been thinking about war weariness - and maybe this:
When you declare war, you instantly get 5 unhappiness (the number can change, it is just to simulate all the hippies getting angry at war :D) Then every, say, 5, 10, 15 turns (whatever number you think to be best) that you are at war, you gain 1 or 2 unhappiness. And if you lose a city then you gain some extra unhappiness (Since the population will be sad over the loss of a city), and maybe also when you conquer an enemy city you gain a little bit of happiness (the population happy over a victory), but not too much so as to defeat the point.

This is just an idea, so the longer you are at war, the more miserable your people get. And certain social policies can decrease this effect of 'war weariness', and some otheres increasing the bonuses of conquering. As I said not too much, but a long war will cause your Civilization to fall to pieces, and let normal game mechanics do the rest eg lost hammers, less combat effect, less growth, revolts ect :D


And... yay 100th post :king:
Click to expand...

Good idea but should it affect only the land that declare war and not the land that is attacked? Or maybe that the 2 first times unhappiness is increasing it only affect the attacking land. And same speed that unhappiness come at war it will decreasing in peace. So if in war 10 turns you get 5(start)+2(turn5)+2(turn10) unhappiness and to get to 0 you need to be at peace in 25 turns (2+2+2+2+1) that do if you is very aggressive you get a penalty in unhappiness. :D
 
knatte_Anka said:
Good idea but should it affect only the land that declare war and not the land that is attacked? Or maybe that the 2 first times unhappiness is increasing it only affect the attacking land. And same speed that unhappiness come at war it will decreasing in peace. So if in war 10 turns you get 5(start)+2(turn5)+2(turn10) unhappiness and to get to 0 you need to be at peace in 25 turns (2+2+2+2+1) that do if you is very aggressive you get a penalty in unhappiness. :D
Click to expand...

Great idea!
The brunt of the penalty has to be on the attacker, but the defender should also recieve penalties, just not as much, in case they go on a rampage and manage to win.

Another thing could be, maybe something along with the size of your empire can make it worse (I know people have said this before, which is good :) this is just making more solid ideas). So maybe the first amount of unhappiness and the amount of unhappiness you gain for X amount of turns is bigger or smaller depending on the size of your nation :) (or something along those lines)
 
I love these ideas. I don't know how to code it, but I can definitely see something like this added to the mod. I agree that the defender should not receive as much WW as the attacker, but maybe at some point - say after taking two cities - the defense should be counted as the offense. For some of the more experienced modders, is something like this possible to code?
 
Can you let the attitude of other leaders determine which side gets more penalty? Say if you are Alexander attacking Gandhi and Gandhi is hated by everyone that Gandhi receives more unhappiness than Alexander for being in a war.
 
When I was mowing the lawn I thought about the idea of war weariness and made some changes which will result in 2 things, total world domination will me much harder now, if not impossible and governments will be much important now.

Spoiler :

When the war starts:
10 unhappiness for attacker if same government and or pacifist, 4 when different government
0 unhappiness for the defender
Lasts till 30 turns after war when same government, when different government or pacifist till the end of the war

When one of the player units is killed:
2 unhappiness when in own territory for 2 turns, 1 for 3 turns
1 unhappiness when in forge in territory lasts 15 turns

When one of the defenders cities is taken:
2 unhappiness base, 1 for each population
Till 4, from then every population 0,25
Decreases with one happiness per turn in war, 3 when in peace.

When one of the attacker’s cities is taken:
2 unhappines base, 1 for each population
Till 4, from then every population 0,5
Decreases with one happiness per turn in war, 3 when in peace.

When capital is taken:
1 unhappines for each population till 10
From then every population 0,5
Does not decrease when in war, 3 when in peace.

When nuke is launched:
5 base from the launcher, +5 when same government, +5 when pacifist and or enviromentialist.
5 for receiver, +5 with enviromentialism.
For the attacker lasts 20 turns, for the defender it lasts till all the radiation is cleaned.

When improvement is pillaged:
1 base, lasts till the improvement is cleaned or repaired.
0, 5 unhappiness for attacker when same government.

A new building, it's a national wonder so it can be builder just once.
Propaganda office: first 10 war unhappiness is covered.


Let me explain how this would work in game,
imagine Montezuma as a big ICS and warmonger, with a lot of small, underdeveloped cities and you, playing as Ghandi with a small tall empire. Because of his big number of cities, Montezuma could already have some troubles with his happiness, then he launches a massive attack which fails, he loses about ten units, you lose 3 when defending and a farm got pillaged.

This would be the results.
You: 6 unhappiness for 2 turns, then 1 for 3 turns. 1 of improvement.
Montezuma: 10 unhappiness for 15 turns

This could just put him over the edge and get him in revolt and rebels will show up everywhere, meaning the end of Montezuma. If not you can even try to make a successful counter attack, if you succeed this could result in an even deeper unhappiness for him and maby then rebels spawn but if Montezuma plays it well he could bring you in revolt instead.

But all of these are just idea's and they would never be makeable without the dll, otherwise the Ai wouldn't understand it and you would need to give city states governments but imagine with the dll we could probally make it possible that when rebels capture the city the make it a city-state or even a new empire.

I smell a redo of Rhye's and Fall of Civilization :)
 
leeuw01 said:
When I was mowing the lawn I thought about the idea of war weariness and made some changes which will result in 2 things, total world domination will me much harder now, if not impossible and governments will be much important now.

Spoiler :

When the war starts:
10 unhappiness for attacker if same government and or pacifist, 4 when different government
0 unhappiness for the defender
Lasts till 30 turns after war when same government, when different government or pacifist till the end of the war

When one of the player units is killed:
2 unhappiness when in own territory for 2 turns, 1 for 3 turns
1 unhappiness when in forge in territory lasts 15 turns

When one of the defenders cities is taken:
2 unhappiness base, 1 for each population
Till 4, from then every population 0,25
Decreases with one happiness per turn in war, 3 when in peace.

When one of the attacker’s cities is taken:
2 unhappines base, 1 for each population
Till 4, from then every population 0,5
Decreases with one happiness per turn in war, 3 when in peace.

When capital is taken:
1 unhappines for each population till 10
From then every population 0,5
Does not decrease when in war, 3 when in peace.

When nuke is launched:
5 base from the launcher, +5 when same government, +5 when pacifist and or enviromentialist.
5 for receiver, +5 with enviromentialism.
For the attacker lasts 20 turns, for the defender it lasts till all the radiation is cleaned.

When improvement is pillaged:
1 base, lasts till the improvement is cleaned or repaired.
0, 5 unhappiness for attacker when same government.

A new building, it's a national wonder so it can be builder just once.
Propaganda office: first 10 war unhappiness is covered.


Let me explain how this would work in game,
imagine Montezuma as a big ICS and warmonger, with a lot of small, underdeveloped cities and you, playing as Ghandi with a small tall empire. Because of his big number of cities, Montezuma could already have some troubles with his happiness, then he launches a massive attack which fails, he loses about ten units, you lose 3 when defending and a farm got pillaged.

This would be the results.
You: 6 unhappiness for 2 turns, then 1 for 3 turns. 1 of improvement.
Montezuma: 10 unhappiness for 15 turns

This could just put him over the edge and get him in revolt and rebels will show up everywhere, meaning the end of Montezuma. If not you can even try to make a successful counter attack, if you succeed this could result in an even deeper unhappiness for him and maby then rebels spawn but if Montezuma plays it well he could bring you in revolt instead.

But all of these are just idea's and they would never be makeable without the dll, otherwise the Ai wouldn't understand it and you would need to give city states governments but imagine with the dll we could probally make it possible that when rebels capture the city the make it a city-state or even a new empire.

I smell a redo of Rhye's and Fall of Civilization :)
Click to expand...

Wow! Really well done and thought out :D
I approve :goodjob:

I just can't wait for DLL and this might just be possible ^^

I guess when thinking about governments I will have to include this ha :crazyeye:
 
Well, you know, there are already lua functions relative to happiness.
 
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