Resources Ideas

45°38'N-13°47'E;13892740 said:

IMHO this is getting way too complicated. Same for atheist discussion.

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I was going to keep this particular concept simple (I don't even think the XML allows more than one AND resource and one OR resource). I just think the Transhuman Era is not as well-developed as the previous eras and could use a little more overall stuff to do if you're not interested in conquest. The unit roster is right where it needs to be, but buildings are a little lacking.

How about Durasteel as a name for this ultra-metal resource? I'm not sure I like anything with adamant in the name; it sounds like it's right on the border between fantasy and sci-fi and I would rather have something more clearly science-inspired.

Here is something else I noticed when I was looking at resource requirements. The Ironworks provides Steel resources without requiring an Iron resource. I think Steel should be allowed to do anything Iron would do if it's not redundant (for example, it makes no sense to allow Steel to build Swordsmen when they have long since been upgraded to Gunpowder units that don't need any resources to build).

Right when Ironworks becomes available, there are a few units and buildings that specifically require Iron to build and have not yet been replaced. I'm going to allow these to be built with Steel as well.

• Cannon
• Cannon Forge
• Cannon Turret
• Frigate
• Privateer
• Ship of the Line

I can't think of any ideas for naming the new resource, but Durasteel sounds okay I suppose.

The Steel being used to build Iron-exclusive content makes sense to me

Vokarya said:

I was going to keep this particular concept simple (I don't even think the XML allows more than one AND resource and one OR resource). I just think the Transhuman Era is not as well-developed as the previous eras and could use a little more overall stuff to do if you're not interested in conquest. The unit roster is right where it needs to be, but buildings are a little lacking.

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Sounds ok then. I also think that Durasteel sounds good and I'm OK with your proposal on units.

I'm going to save Durasteel for a future build, because I want to make sure I get all the details right. I did find another angle to give Durasteel, and that is allowing it to also substitute for Aluminum on a lot of Air units. I think Aluminum is a good proxy for any high-tech but non-nuclear metal (we don't need to make Titanium a separate resource for example), but with enough technology, you should be able to get around it.

The one area that will be unable to benefit from Durasteel is actually modern ships. The XML limits us to only one AND requirement and one OR requirement for any building or unit. You can get a second de facto AND requirement by limiting your OR requirement to only one choice, but you can't have three AND or two different sets of OR requirements. Modern ships use their OR requirement on their fuel (Oil Products OR Uranium) and Steel is an AND requirement. Land vehicles and planes are Oil Products only if they even have a fuel requirement, so giving them a Durasteel option will be workable.

A meaningless thought:


Durasteel sounds okay and I agree with all the rest of the ideas..

If we cannot use it as an other AND/OR requirement, could we use it as a production booster?

I'm not ready to implement Durasteel yet, but I've been compiling some thoughts on it.

I think it might be better to go the National Wonder route with DS instead of the Steel Mill route. I feel like there will be too much of the resource otherwise.

I think Durasteel can serve as a production booster for buildings and projects only. Non-Wonder buildings with a Steel requirement could benefit; Durasteel will also double the production of SS Casing (replacing Aluminum) and SS Engine (currently has no doubler). I also think the Arcology buildings should require Durasteel.

That's all I have for the moment.

Vokarya said:

I'm not ready to implement Durasteel yet, but I've been compiling some thoughts on it.

I think it might be better to go the National Wonder route with DS instead of the Steel Mill route. I feel like there will be too much of the resource otherwise.

I think Durasteel can serve as a production booster for buildings and projects only. Non-Wonder buildings with a Steel requirement could benefit; Durasteel will also double the production of SS Casing (replacing Aluminum) and SS Engine (currently has no doubler). I also think the Arcology buildings should require Durasteel.

That's all I have for the moment.

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All sounds good to me - Not *entirely* sure about the Casing losing out on Aluminum bonus though.... Maybe 25% each from both?

My only concern with Durasteel is if it's available for every civ it makes no real difference.
I had an idea that it could require a team project, so is only available to your allies, but that doesn't make much sense without allies option on

I have some ideas about Fertilizers. I think Fertilizers are badly implemented as a resource. Their current bonus is a flat +3 health. This is a LOT of health from one source. They also do not tie into any other building or unit, unlike most resources. I think Fertilizers should provide more food production rather than just health. While we can't do a direct yield bonus to all cities with a resource (we could do it as a global bonus from the NW, but I don't want that bonus to stack), we can do a +% yield from a building with a resource.

I think this would be a good alternate set of bonuses for Fertilizers:

• +1 health.
• Grain Silo produces +15% food with access to Fertilizers. It might even be higher, but I think this is a good start.
• Hydroponic Farm and Farmscraper: I think these should require Fertilizers for maximum yield. I'm not sure if a small civ can spare the NW slot for a Fertilizer Plant, so I would probably split the
  • Hydroponic Farm: Requires Fertilizers. This only produces 3 food by itself.
  • Farmscraper: I'm making a change to consolidate the 3 Farmscrapers with +6 food each into one scraper with +10 food. I think I would split this as +4 food innately/additional +6 food with Farmscrapers.

Is this workable?

On Fertilisers, isn't it just a food bonus for cities with ill health. You have +2 and are using up +2 food to combat this ill.

By building a fertiliser plant, you gain +3 and gain +2 food.

If your city is +5, and you build fertiliser plant, you gain no extra food, but +3 headway.

Personally, I feel that that's a better result. Too much food bonuses, without the corresponding health bonus, doesn't seem right.

I'm currently up to the Fertiliser plant in my current game. Some of my TOP cities are reaching the health cap, or exceeding it. So a +3 would be most welcome.

A food bonus, would only aid those lessor cities with lots of ice and tundra, who shouldn't be allowed to grow unrestrained, but the ones with verdant fertile lands, should be allowed to boost its health and corresponding food production.

Then again, I very much enjoyed the food wastage mechanism when is was employed, very real world. but its a game and game balance.

Farm scraper, one building with a production bonus with access to Fertiliser, yes.
Grains silo bonus NO.

I like the idea of additional percentage food yield modifier from buildings with fertilisers, if raw plot yields can't be changed.

Vokarya said:

• +1 health.
• Grain Silo produces +15% food with access to Fertilizers. It might even be higher, but I think this is a good start.
• Hydroponic Farm and Farmscraper: I think these should require Fertilizers for maximum yield. I'm not sure if a small civ can spare the NW slot for a Fertilizer Plant, so I would probably split the
  • Hydroponic Farm: Requires Fertilizers. This only produces 3 food by itself.
  • Farmscraper: I'm making a change to consolidate the 3 Farmscrapers with +6 food each into one scraper with +10 food. I think I would split this as +4 food innately/additional +6 food with Farmscrapers.

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I agree on the HF and FS, but a bit hesitant about Grain Silo. I would drop the bonus entirely.

Maybe we could add a new terrain feature: Fertilized Soil? Similiar to Flood plains but artificial. Requires Fertilizer. Can be built on Tundra and Dessert. +1 and allows Farm on it.
Is that possible at all?

Hi Everyone!
My suggestion for Resources:
Turtle coast/water resource, bonus, available without improvement (like Civ3 resource) or work boat/camp;
Seals coast/water resource, bonus, available without improvement (like Civ3 resource) or work boat/camp;
Coral coast/water resource, bonus, needs work boat
Timber, Honey, Camel Amber - resources from other Civ4 mods;
Splite Gems into diamonds, rubies, emeralds, turquoise, jades;
Cranberry is ideal resource for marsh, bonus, available without improvement (like Civ3 resource)

Sogroon said:

I agree on the HF and FS, but a bit hesitant about Grain Silo. I would drop the bonus entirely.

Maybe we could add a new terrain feature: Fertilized Soil? Similiar to Flood plains but artificial. Requires Fertilizer. Can be built on Tundra and Dessert. +1 and allows Farm on it.
Is that possible at all?

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I checked into that a while ago. It's not possible to have any build or improvement contingent on a resource. Routes can have resource requirements, but they use a separate XML file.

IMO it'd be more realistic if we gave olives +1 istead of +1.The people of the Mediterranean (not only...) know very well the positives of olive oil.If you think there's too much healthiness from bonuses then we could change the healthiness of some animal resources (cow,sheep,pig,deer) to happiness.

Why the civilopedia says that appleand olivegive happiness only with hybrid forest?Orchards aren't enough to give happiness?

I was looking for a way to solve the Hostile Takeover quest issue (that it can trigger on manufactured resources and thus will never complete) and I found out something about the BonusClass for resources. As far as I can tell, BonusClass only matters when populating the map. There is an iUnique value for each BonusClass as well as for each resource type that is supposed to space them around the map. Since manufactured resources are never placed on the map, this never comes into play and so they can be assigned any class type.

Class type does not even play into the Resources highlight on the Globe View; any resource with non-zero health counts as a Food (even Lead!), any resource with non-zero happiness counts as a Luxury (even Uranium), and a General is any resource without either health or happiness.

If we assign the right bonus types to manufactured resources, we could efficiently screen them out of the Hostile Takeover triggering conditions.

To do this right, we will have to change a few class types. Specifically, Alcohol, Hit Movies, Hit Musicals, and Hit Singles go from General to Manufactured, and Cement goes from Modern to Manufactured. Then, by screening out Manufactured and Future resources, Hostile Takeover should work properly.

On a side note, we have BonusClasses for Seafood and Luxury that we aren't using at all. I think we should use those as well and leave General for Health resources and odd resources.

Yet another thing I noticed; Nanotubes and Nanobots resources give +1 health. We have enough health floating around in the late game that I don't think we need these bonuses. I would prefer them to be straight strategic resources.

Vokarya said:

Yet another thing I noticed; Nanotubes and Nanobots resources give +1 health. We have enough health floating around in the late game that I don't think we need these bonuses. I would prefer them to be straight strategic resources.

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Agreed.
BTW: Do we really need Nanotubes? Doesn't sound for me as a real resource that needs to be produced in huge amounts - like Cement or Fertilizer - rather something that any lab can produce with the right equipment.