Vokarya's Workshop: Units

Commando promotion to motorcycle and later recon units makes sense. Maybe a withdrawal % as well? Since scouts would try to evade contact rather than engage.
Sentry and Guerrilla don't really make sense to me, but I suppose they are there since the Adventurer also gets them?
 
Commando promotion to motorcycle and later recon units makes sense. Maybe a withdrawal % as well? Since scouts would try to evade contact rather than engage.
Sentry and Guerrilla don't really make sense to me, but I suppose they are there since the Adventurer also gets them?

Guerrilla wouldn't be needed I think since by the time motor vehicles come into play most of the world would be settled anyway and there'd be roads already present they can use to bypass the movement limitations on most forests and hills. Or, in theory they would be able to :)
 
Sentry and Guerrilla don't really make sense to me, but I suppose they are there since the Adventurer also gets them?

They are there precisely because the Adventurer gets them. My rule is that (except for Unique Units) a starting promotion should also be given to every unit in the chain - otherwise you are in some ways getting penalized for access to more modern units. This is why I took the Flanking promotions off of the Light Cavalry. I don't think it made sense for those to continue on to later cavalry units.
 
The Upgrade Discount promotion looks like it is currently impossible to get in the mod. It requires the Special Promotion dummy tech, so you can't get it normally, and there is no other way to get it through an event or building. I think it is left over from before RoM 2.9, when it was replaced by RevDCM's blanket upgrade discount ability (the promotion was given out by Sun Tzu's Art of War). I think we can just cut this out without causing any problems.
 
Has anyone else noticed that there is no building-based way to get XP for Archery units until the Archery Range shows up at Feudalism? I think there should be at least one way to get a level-1 Archery unit. I think a starting point would be to give Arena +1 XP to Archery units and then find another building as well.
 
I also had another thought yesterday. Would it be a bad thing if we moved Trebuchet from Engineering to Invention? I think this would be a good thing for two reasons:
  • Siege Warfare (for Catapult) and Engineering (for Trebuchet) are too close together for my taste. I would like Catapult to be able to show up on the battlefield a little longer.
  • Engineering is a very crowded technology, mostly due to Expanded Castles. Engineering currently has 13 tricks: Castle, Crossbowman, Edinburgh's Castle, Carpenter's Guild, Trebuchet, and 8 Expanded Castle buildings (Balistraria, Ballista Turret, Castle Gatehouse, Castle Keep, Catacombs, Dungeon, Herbalist, Moat) -- which is second only to Guilds, and that is only because of all the different Guilds available. Invention has only Artesian Well and Heavy Cavalry, and I'm not so sure that Heavy Cavalry is a good fit. If we move Trebuchet, it reduces the stuff you get from Engineering and gives a little bit more room to move Heavy Cavalry off of Invention without reducing it to one-trick-pony status.
 
Has anyone else noticed that there is no building-based way to get XP for Archery units until the Archery Range shows up at Feudalism? I think there should be at least one way to get a level-1 Archery unit. I think a starting point would be to give Arena +1 XP to Archery units and then find another building as well.

Or the Archery Range could be moved back a bit, but I'm not sure what sort of tech would fit for it...

As for the Engineering/Invention idea for Trebuchets - I agree Invention sounds like an adequate new tech requirement :king:
 
I'd also move Archery Range a few techs back, rather than giving the Arena the extra xp for archers.
 
I agree with the others about archery:
Move archery range beck. Warfare?
I don't think that in an arene any gladiator ever was allowed to use any ranged weapons, so the +1Xp doesn't sound too good for me.

I welcome the trebuchet move too :)
 
I agree with the others about archery:
Move archery range beck. Warfare?
I don't think that in an arene any gladiator ever was allowed to use any ranged weapons, so the +1Xp doesn't sound too good for me.

I have started to think about the Arena as participatory sport, and the Colosseum as spectator sport. So that's why I suggested putting the Archery bonus at Arena.

How does this sound: Move Archery Range to Athletics. The only problem with having it at Warfare is then it feels like it shouldn't be a separate building and the bonus should be part of Barracks. At the same time, move Circus Maximus from Athletics to Horse Breeding. I'd love to diversify Horse Breeding a bit more.
 
I have started to think about the Arena as participatory sport, and the Colosseum as spectator sport. So that's why I suggested putting the Archery bonus at Arena.

How does this sound: Move Archery Range to Athletics.

I do not feel entirely comfortable with moving Archery Range to Athletics, do not see it altogether realistic. Nor do I see the archers receive experience in the Arena. Rarely could use bows in these, except perhaps in special recreation events of historical battles, as they made the Romans.

The only problem with having it at Warfare is then it feels like it shouldn't be a separate building and the bonus should be part of Barracks. At the same time, move Circus Maximus from Athletics to Horse Breeding. I'd love to diversify Horse Breeding a bit more.

I think Warfare is the perfect candidate. And I not see that bad you have to build two different training buildings from the same technology. Nor do I care that the Barracks give experience to the Archers, although I prefer to have two separate buildings. Otherwise, it is too simplify things in my opinion.

I like the idea of ​​moving Circus Maximus to Horse Breeding.
 
I'm reluctant to move anything to Warfare at this point, if only because Warfare as a technology has so much stuff attached right now. Warfare has a "trick count" of 8 right now, with 7 major tricks (Barracks, Conscription civic and Draft Office, Battering Ram, Sun Tzu's Art of War, Temple of Set, and the free Great General) and 2 minor tricks (+1 strength for Archer and Drill I promotion). That puts it in the top 20%. 4-5 tricks seems to me to be the ideal.
 
I think I figured out over the last couple of days that it seems virtually impossible that I can stop modding. I can play for a couple of days, and then I get the urge to add more stuff. I'm going to spend some time working on the land units that I want to flesh out some of the existing lines.

Something that has always bothered me is the Mounted Infantry. I love the concept, but the execution isn't as good as it could be. The problem here is that the Mounted Infantry come directly from the Charlemagne mod, which gives the artwork a medieval flavor, but the unit itself is available at Horse Breeding in the Classical Era.

What I have done so far is to import a different mounted swordsman artwork and new button to use for the regular Mounted Infantry, like this:
View attachment 372118

And then, free up the medieval look for a new Man-at-Arms unit. It has the same basic concept as the Mounted Infantry (speed 2, can receive defensive bonuses), except that it comes in the Medieval Era (requiring Heraldry and Stirrup -- Stirrup isn't required as a tech prerequsite until Armored Cavalry, which is a little bit further down the tree), is stronger (Strength 9 vs. 6) and more expensive (cost 80 vs. 50, slightly cheaper than Swordsman or Maceman).
View attachment 372119

I think the only thing I am concerned about here is whether this unit should be Strength 9 or 10. I've got it at 9 for now. This makes it slightly better than Longbowman and equal to Crossbowman, although without their special defensive bonuses.

I'm going to be taking a look at moving around the ethnic artworks that are already included in the mod and adding a few more. I know the Roman mounted infantry and the Mongol mounted infantry are staying with that unit, and the Dutch Batavian Cavalry (which is a simple flavor rename) is moving over to the Man-at-Arms.
 
I was looking at Missionaries this morning, and I noticed that Magi, Scribe, and Tlenamacac are speed-1 and all other missionaries are speed-2. Do you think this is intended? Should we standardize all missionaries on speed 2? I think speed 2 is better for all missionaries.
 
I was looking at Missionaries this morning, and I noticed that Magi, Scribe, and Tlenamacac are speed-1 and all other missionaries are speed-2. Do you think this is intended? Should we standardize all missionaries on speed 2? I think speed 2 is better for all missionaries.

I see no reason not to.

JosEPh
 
As long as the costs are the same, the stats, by all means, should be too.
 
I'm reluctant to move anything to Warfare at this point, if only because Warfare as a technology has so much stuff attached right now. Warfare has a "trick count" of 8 right now, with 7 major tricks (Barracks, Conscription civic and Draft Office, Battering Ram, Sun Tzu's Art of War, Temple of Set, and the free Great General) and 2 minor tricks (+1 strength for Archer and Drill I promotion). That puts it in the top 20%. 4-5 tricks seems to me to be the ideal.

How about introducing a new tech:
Composite Bow
  • +1 strength for Archer (from Warfare)
  • Drill I promotion) (from Warfare)
  • Archeri range (from Feudalism)
  • Longbowman (from Feudalism)
  • +1 strength for Cavalry Archer
 
How about introducing a new tech:
Composite Bow
  • +1 strength for Archer (from Warfare)
  • Drill I promotion) (from Warfare)
  • Archeri range (from Feudalism)
  • Longbowman (from Feudalism)
  • +1 strength for Cavalry Archer

:goodjob:
except for Longbowman, I believe it should stay in the medieval era
 
I'm not really interested in new technologies at the moment. I'd actually like to cut down on the number of war techs that are currently in the tree - they feel too conceptually narrow to be good techs. Warfare can stay where it is now, and I do feel I have a little difficulty with counting civic and religious buildings as tricks for a particular tech when they are so dependent on other factors.
 
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