Super early Oda Rush.

KingKong76

Warlord
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
240
Ok Im kinda new at Deity... won 3 times, but with the obvious... Poland, Babylon and Maya...

I just roll a ''very good'' start with Shoshone. Tons of prod, mining ressources, 2 oasis to farm around... my cap is on agold ress right next to montain, at least 3 nice spots for expo... life is good.

Then, I realise that even if I play continent 8 civ. Im on a one on one date with Oda on a farily larrge island (or tiny contnent) Im a bit worried for early rush, and trading but as I expected the other island is accesible without navigation. So fine...

That said... Turn 51, just after I lanted my 3rd city, he attacks me with TONS of Archers and Warriors.... no problem I manage... But impossible to make paece... I finaly quit on turn 140 something after 90 turns of war. Now he have CB, Pikemen and Samourai... and my 10 Crossbows and few long swords and 1-2 Knights keeps killing units after unit after units with not progress woward his city. (wich was technicaly my spot)

So, basicaly I could have continue cause my units were now 2 to 4 promotions and his... well... Anything his millitary buildings would give him cause they were dying like flies. Point is that war totaly set me back in growth and buidings and Im now 14 Tech behind, and clearly not in the path I wanted! I could not find any solutions.

Or could I?
Is that as that standard from Oda or Alex, or other super aggro to basicaly build units an nothing else and never accept peace on Diety?
What is the solution here? If there is one?
 
A lot of warmongers never make peace unless you do some damage to their own lands. That is why he will fight for 90 turns because you are fighting him near your own cities. The AI doesn't really care how many units he loses. He cares about his military ranking vs. yours and if you are damaging his lands. Even though you are killing many units his military score stays high because he makes many more so he keeps thinking he can win over you.

The only solution is to hurt him in some way, but this is difficult in your situation it sounds like with no other AI to bribe to attack and on the defense constantly. Something you can try that has worked for me in the past is creating a pillaging party. Basically you want 2-3 horse units that go around his army back to his cities and just raid the borders. Pillage everything you can safely get too focusing on luxuries and military resources--try to plunge him into unhappiness or take out his horse and iron to give his army on the front lines combat penalties and hurt his production to make more units. Use the gold to upgrade and cash-buy more of your own units. Workers will come to repair so wait and capture his workers when they do and disband them, etc. Even though you aren't directly damaging his cities the AI sees this as war damage and may eventually ask for peace--especially if their empire gets too unhappy from your efforts. Then you can use the time to build a better army for his inevitable second attack. The AI will go after your raiders but you should be safe running in and out. Just avoid them. Usually if you fall back they leave, then you can return a couple turns later to do more damage. It's so fun! :D If he does pull more troops back to repel you that's good too because it means pressure off the assault on your cities and you can start marching on his.

If that doesn't work the only other option would be actually beating him back and starting to assault his own cities. This can be done on Deity but you'll need to build a large enough army to do it and fight smartly to overcome his superior numbers. Just getting close to one of his cities with a large force and damaging it after killing off his main army is enough to make most AI beg for peace.

The last thing you want to do though is what you did just sit there waiting for him at your own cities. I'm not surprised that resulted in a 90-turn war, especially with Oda. Some assaulters march one army and if you defeat it they sue for peace but this isn't actually because they lost the army (they don't care about that) what they care about is your military score vs. theirs. Usually what caused them to ask for peace is you built more military and killing some of theirs so your scores are more even or maybe yours is even better. Oda and other warmongers however just spam units constantly on Deity so their score never gets low enough for them to feel like they are losing. This is why you need to damage his cities' abilities to make more units and hurt his lands. It is the only way to stop it.

If you have T0 save of this map I think some of us that like war might want to try it. It sounds difficult and a lot of fun!
 
Well in fact I was in 3 tiles range of his city... And I had 2 more knights comming... I was close to do exactly whatt you suggested...
I just fot discourged cause I had only 2 units in sight and he suddently filled all the gap between my units and his city with units.
I could have killed them, but I could not see the end of that... maybe it was closer than I tought.
 
Well you can deal with that if you blindside him. Shoshone are a bit crazy since the Pathfinder upgrades to CB. If you also bribe him to attack someone else and that probably will be really easy, his army will be scattered and you will have an opening. It's a short window on Deity though but it's possible
 
Well you can deal with that if you blindside him. Shoshone are a bit crazy since the Pathfinder upgrades to CB. If you also bribe him to attack someone else and that probably will be really easy, his army will be scattered and you will have an opening. It's a short window on Deity though but it's possible

Well this what I would have done... but I was alone on my sland with this psycopath! :p
 
14 techs behind after 140 turns is manageable to catch up. But you need to crush that stupid samurai. His good land and perhaps wonders might make up for the slight setback.

Did you try and have someone DOW him as well ? Might attract some troops from ODA and somewhat clear the path for you.

Also, you shouldnt be DoWed again if you end up being alone on your continent
 
14 techs behind after 140 turns is manageable to catch up. But you need to crush that stupid samurai. His good land and perhaps wonders might make up for the slight setback.

Did you try and have someone DOW him as well ? Might attract some troops from ODA and somewhat clear the path for you.

Also, you shouldnt be DoWed again if you end up being alone on your continent

I have to admit that I did not try to asked Carthage and Polynesia to DoW him... Especialy Polynesia could have had acces early. Might have change something.

What do you mean by if Im alone I shouldnt be WoWed again?
You mean I should Dow the other civ and kick him back before he does?
 
Citadels?

If theres lots of fighting you should get lots of Generals. Use them do carve path into japans lands, meat-shields in front, XBs behind. Burn junk cities, take the rest. Don't stop until Oda is gone. Total extermination.

Its the only way. He'll never stop. Better to exterminate him. If hes big enough he'll send troops, if not, he'll make friends and start denouce chain reaction (I denouce coz my friend did it).
 
I agree with all of the advice so far. Citadels, placed on an ideal piece of land such as on a hill or wedged between mountains will help decimate his forces. I always think of the movie 300 when I'm in this situation lol. My tactic is to let the AI send his waves and build up experience for my troops whilst building a few other units in the background. It can be tough sometimes if you are in open and exposed land with no hills/mountains to bottleneck their advance.

I admit, I've had to quit a few Diety games when somebody like Shaka has railroaded me out of the blue but the key is to learn from these mistakes. No matter how friendly the AI is with you, always prepare for war! The advice given so far has been good but doesn't always work. Sometimes your mounted units just have no way of getting near the enemy land to pillage it. Sometimes the waves are so contant that you have no way of building up a crusade into his lands to attack his cities. The game is very situational.

Sometimes on Diety I actually try to settle my closest city to the AI near very rough terrain (mountains, marsh, jungle) and use that city as a buffer to keep the enemy at bay. Generally I will try to protect my borders and identify the best 'kill zones' for his advancing units. I also take the left hand side of the Honor tree when playing on Diety - you need to get that experience up for your troops!
 
all make sens here... I probably have not beeen fast enought to get my horse units up and running and clearly not agressive enough with my generals... (had freahing 3 I think in the end.)
 
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