Maps and Scenarios

The mod currently ships with 3 maps. All are work in progress the two worldmaps(one with some cities preplaced) are playable. If you post interesting scenarios however that work with the mod I will put in links here to point to them.

The Psychic Llama Position!!

Completed Maps:
Kinstrife --- Scenario based on the war between Darkelves and Highelves.

Currently working on:
- a Worldmap with a much bigger oldworld (naggaroth Mountaind chopped in half, the bad lands chopped in half, Norsca pushed up, no Chaotic Antarctica, based off Ploes map
--- Beta Giant Oldworld map: LINK
---Some problems i know about:
-----Kurgan show the Kislev flag, and ind shows the Hung flag --- fixed
----- not all the map is complete, still need to do the Esatern parts, (asia) --- done asia

Scenario ideas:
-Wodelf Scenario focused on Athel Loren and surrounding country side.
--- civs include WE, Bretonia, Orcs, Dwarfs, Beastmen.

-Lustrian Scenario, focused on ALL the invasion of Lustria from different periods.
--- civs incluse Lizardmen, Amazon, Norsca, Estalia, Highelves, Darkelves, Sylvania, Skaven.

-Khemri Scenario focused on the rise and fall of Nehekharah.
--- involves Khemri, Araby, Lhamia, Nagash (new Sylvanian leader for this scenario)

i will post links later

Reserved (planning to make and modify some maps when i have time)

Work in progress:
Modifying the world map : masada nagaroth modifications and old world enlargment.

Future works:

huge old world map

Scenario project:

"The time of woes" :starting shortly after the war of the beard with the dwarves empire being attacked by greenskins and skavens and the coming of man.

"A fistfull of gold coins": a scenario featuring the travel of an armed caravan along the silver road from the empire to cathay (a tactical scenario so)

Latest version of map:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/16133/Solwen_s_WarhammerWorld_v1.03.rar

I don't say that my map should be the standard world map PL but don't you think it's a waste of time to make a new world map ? Should'nt we just modify the already existing one (as making a map balanced is already a hard task) ?

Future works:

huge old world map

Click to expand...

Maybe better large. It would be nice to have Standard(Kinstrife), Large(Old World), Huge (Worldmap -enlarged Old World).

ok we will do (you want to make it PL ?) large old world map

well, i only started making the 2nd World map because i wanted to see what Masadas ideas about cutting naggaroth back to make the old world bigger would be like, and i agree that it is quite good. there is a lot of space for civs to expand into now and no impact on non old world civs (i hope).

I think yours is much better balanced and the resouce placement is nice ( i hate placing resources ), so i was going to try copy that . the reason i worked from ploe's map is because it was more empty, and it was easyer to alter land mass sizes and stuff, i tried with yours at first but got quite confused it saved me from having to clear all the resources and civs etc.

i think all the civ specific scenarios (kinstrife, Lustria etc) should be standard sized, one generic oldwold that is large, one whole world map that is large (for slower comps) and a huge worldmap with a bigger Old World.

well, when im finished this map i can have a shot at an old world map if you like

Okay i vote for one thing...

Basically we concentrate on getting a balanced whole Warhammer World Map:

We select one map of it: Then we begin to polish that... ill be happy to do my exaustive ammendments lists ala Naggaroth and we get the resources working nicely (I finish school before long and then im working (but i will have alot more time to research and check balance etc) and everything functioning fairly well... then we can start to impliment the code to make it Rhye like (Pleo will have more time in December.. but i think it might just be a case of cut and pasting quite abit of it if we keep it reasonably simple)

So in the intrim we should probably have a selection of fairly simple conversions that are around standard size (for older comps) and a few that are larger (these we will lavish the attention on... and i feel that the World map will be the most important and require the most work).

Basically in Rhyes with a fairly good computer i wont lag all that much (and the time between turns is still not to bad) its only when i reach the modern era that i start having problems (which is qutie common)...

Rhye has a number of useful things to limit lag...

Plague (which kills of the weaker outdated units and reduces population)

Barb invasions which destroy off weakly defended and expansionistic cities (periodic chaos invasions for us)

Quite stringent limits on where exactly civs expand to (through intelligent placing of terrian.... ie me wanting to ban DE settling on a certain type of forest... which i propose to extend to a certain type of Jungle to limit the city spam of both Lizardmen they are after all falling apart... for ideas of how this works and how it works quite nicely... i suggest a Mayan game.. and for my ideas about Dwarves i suggest an Inca game for implimentation ideas) why? because it stops city spamm clogigng up the whole map... and taking over areas that are not used traditionally

Periodic spawning of new civs (which help to pull apart weaker civilizations and keep there size down)

Diplomatically through losing contact with civs which are not near you... he works it like this: if you cannot see the enemies border... or have no units within visual range you have a set % chance of losing contact with that civilization (which is realistic) and helps to stop lag... if you cant diplomatically talk to a civ then for some reason it goes faster

But we need to concentrate our efforts on one map which is the world map... im not sure which one we want to take ill leave that up to the mapmakers...

But our parameters for succes are:

Simplicity
Providing an authentic Warhammer experience (or at least a plausible one... no Empire conquering all the world sort of thing)
Realistic alternate win conditions
Speed for the average player... no 10 second waits between turns right at the start (ie barbs being well placed etc)
And just general enjoyment i think we can get away with abit more fun that way... i dont mind having Wood Elves break out and conquer most of the Old World but we just need to try to keep it reasonable

Im going to have a long week ahead of me checking resource placement (btw for out Beta version i suggest we delete all barbs (so we can see where civs spread to and place cities so we can better understand how to control it )

i agree with you masada

Yep that's a good idea.

A few things i was thinking are: can't we drop the hobgoblins hegemony and just make a terrain like "steppes" that spawn hobgob wolf riders ?
Indeed there is no fluff on them apart from the fact that they are nomads and i don't think they will really be interresting to play.

The advantages of this are:
Speed up the game by removing a faction.
Speed up the mod development by removing a faction.
Free some place

This "steppe" terrain should be unimprovable and no city on it.

The other thing i thought is: do the old world really need more space ?
Number of cities the current civ can make:

Empire: 8
brettonia: 6
Estalia: 5
Tilea: 4
Kislev: 3
Sylvania: 2

It's like the current state of the warhammer world and i think by giving them more place it will just slow the game. Moreover if we place ressource nicely and give some bonus to forests and such these cities will be enough for them.

Just my 2 cents.

i agreet that we should drop a civ, but i would rather drom beastmen, because there is no room for them anywhere (i know there is a lot of fluff on them, but they just dont 'fit' andwhere . they can them become barbarians, because they are notorious for popping up everywhere (plus they are chaos aligned). hobgobs are good becasue they fill up the gap between the chaos lands and the oldworld / darklands. they dont have much fluff, but with some improvisation i think they could be quite interesting .

i like the idea of steppe terrain too btw

your forgetting woodelves, they cant survive with only 1 city, and 2 / 3 cities for sylvania and kislev would be rather... boring. but your right that if were smart with resource placement, it wont matter that there are a few cities, they will be good cities. not all civs should get forest bonus, only WE and beastmen if we keep them.

Yep one city if it is super good is enough + i'v let place north east of marienburg for the Laurelorn asrai city.

Hungs could and are here to fill the gap of the hobgob.

The nice thing with rhye is that each ai civ know where to build his cities so in the end WE will end with 2 (or perhaps more) cities.

The We are problematic in the fact that they are really tied to athel loren and would never leave it if they had the choice.

Speaking of the asrai do you think it was a good idea to give them "guardian wine" on their frontier? (did that to represent the multitude of guardian spirit protecting Loren).

We really need to figure out and decide what each terrain do and the speacial terrain before continuing i think.

Hungs actuall live north of naggaroth the other side of the world.

well, i dont like the look of the guardian vines. perhaps if when we design WE so they have a chance of getting a random forest spirit unit (Dryad, treekin, treeman) spawning out of forests like with the FfH Fellowship of leaves mechanism.

we also need to implement such terrain

-Grassland; leave as is, no evil varient.
-Plains; leave as is, evil varient = 'Steppe', with +1 hammer, -1 food, and spawns nomadic barbarians, ie Hobgobs if we ditch them. can build Cities on them, but it is a dangerous idea to do so (barbarian hordes)
-Desert; leave as is, evil varient = 'Shifting Sands' -1 food. converts neighboring squares to desert. has a 5% chance of 'moving' into a neighboring square (converting neighboring square to shifting sands, and changing itself into a normal desert.)
-Flood Plains; leave as is, no evil varient.
-Marsh; leave as is, evil varient = 'Swamp', 0 bonuses, +1 unhealthy. spawns Skaven Barbarians. non skaven units moving through swamp has a 25% chance of contracting a disease (as per FfH Diseased promotion)
-Tundra, leave as is, no evil varient
-Snow, leave as is, no evil varient

-Forest, leave as is, evil varient = 'Deep Forest' as normal forest. cannot build cities, or roads. only recon units can move through them. spawns Beastmen barbaians and Monsters like Hydras, Manticores etc. (WE can use Deep forests as normal forests)
-Jungle, leave as is, evil varient = 'Rainforest' Extra +1 food compared to normal jungle. cannot build cities, or roads. only recon units can move through them. spawns Skaven and Lizardmen Barbarians. Lizardmen and Amazon can use Rainforests as normal.

On Evil Terrian
personally dont bother with the evil terrian except for Forests and Jungles keep the terrian simple we dont need anymore as Solwen suggested we can control where exactly civs expand to anyways...

On Hobgoblins, beastman and Amazons
i dont see any real reason why we would keep the Hobgoblin Hegemony in the game... they can be represented by barbs without much difficulty and we should remove the beastmen as well...

(im having a long hard think about the role of Amazons... but they should definately be kept in)

On Steepes:

I dont think we need them, basically without access to rives they are useless anyways... and given that there are no civs terribly close to that area... we are not going to have a problem because aside from chaos being close there are mountains or barbs to dissuade them...

Cities: We do need to make the Old World sizeable for a number of reasons... namely because if we dont most cities will have few if any cities:

BTW what map are you using for these estimates Solowen?

As a note: The order of spawns from the old world would be:

Wood Elves (gives them time to expand into the forest and shore up culture... wood elve win conditions will be : 1 lose no cities and whatever else we think off... but im leaning towards having cordial relations with all Old World powers excepting the evil ones...)

Tilea will be next (and will have the same power as Rome and with similar objectives... but and i must note this much more limited room for expansion.. ie 2 cities in Brettionia, 1 in Estalia, 1 in the Empire, control of border princes and a foot hold in the badlands... by date X)

Brettionia will spawn next (i havent thought of there victory conditions yet but they will have power of Chivalry which gives them better Knights)

Empire will spawn next... with objectives like vassalize Brettonia and Kislev, amass colonies in a few places (including Lustria, one towards the South of Araby and secure trade of silks or something...)

Kislev will spawn directly after the first major Old World Human war against Kislev... or will spawn just before and have a large army to fight of Chaos... objectives will be lose no cities, build walls, castles and a pulk (barracks) and rota (stables) in each city and surivive 3 chaos incursions (exacty how we are going to represent this is beyond me)

Sylvania: will be the last to spawn... since the Von Carstiens are quite late in the piece... they will have objectives like Control the Empire (since they only wanted to be Emperor), have X amount of Vampires (we will need to make up a device to help this.. ie Vampire units kill a hero and gain a new Vamps) and?

In the end most nations are not going to be placing cities they are going to be taking pre-existing barbarian cities to cut down on the hardships that newly spawning civs are going to face

BTW: One city even if it is super does not make up for a couple of reasonable cities... namely because a single city is far far far easier to take out massed artillery anyone? And the shield production of one city is limited by the total amount of shields and food producable by a single city whereas multiple cities have on average better amounts of shield and food production..

i agree entirely with you masada, sorry Solwen

but i still think we need an 'evil variant for swamps and desert...

i was more or less agreeing with Solowen i need to know what map we have decided to use... ill withhold my vote until i learn what the mapmakers want (better if you vote unanimously)

I dont think we do... the terrian is allready marginal which helps us a great deal... and we are not going to have terrian that spawns random amounts of barbs (to much lag) instead we will have controlled barbarian spawns spaced over a set time... for reference play a game with Greece and try to survive the barb invasions that (in history terms destroyed the Roman Empire). They are brutual and we can harness things like that to reduce the lag and keep the game turns clipping along nicely.

Yes setting where and what type of barbs spawn will be the perfect solution. But i think "evil" forest and jungles should be in but that's just my opinion.

For the number of city that can be placed i used my map as a reference (the small cottages placed are where actual cities are...).

For the civ spawning dates (from the fluf)

Lizardmen: -4500 (the end of the great war agaist chaos caused by the northern gate collapse and the edification of the ulthuan vortex)

Asur: -4500

Dawi: -4500

Khemri: -3000 (dynasty of Nehek, founder of the city of Khemri)

Cursed Lahmia: -1800

Druchii: -1600

Asrai: -1501 (the elves colonists of Athel Loren declare independance after the Phoenix king Caradryel call to withdrawal.)

Beastmen: -1095 (Cyanathair aka Morghur awakes)

Araby: -900

Tilea: -800

Empire, estalia, norsca, Kislev and bretonia: -500

Orcs and gobs: -1

Amazons: 888 (they are cast out from skeggi)

For the other i don't know

P.S: hey look at this, this is a documentary on kislev
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWjKnyVUNE8

OMG! i love that movie! is it possible to have unique victory videos for each civ? if we can that should defiantely be Kislevs!!!

and here is another excelent Warhammer video, it kind of blends into the current intro movei near the end, but the begining is also brilliant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h0SswsOsEo

*ehem*
anyway...

yeh those spawning times look good.

Lizardmen: -4500

High Elves: -4500

Dwarves: -4500

First Barbarian Human action as Romany pour into the Old World: -4200 (barb attack into Empire, border princes, some turns later... maybe 20 cities begin to appear in border princes and northern empire (to hold chaos back for abit and to provide cities to eventually flip to the Empire and Kislev)

High Elves: -4000 (have colonies in the Old World: Athel Toralien, Sith Rionnasc'namishathir (Star Gem of the Sea founded at the mouth of the Riek now Marienburg), Tor Alessi (now the Brettionian port of L'Anguille), Athel Maraya

Chaos Dwarves: -3500

Amazon Sisterhood -3000 (lets not use the stupid Skeggi fluff there is a great deal more infomation on the old Amazons than these new ones)

Dark Elves: -2749 to -2700: Half of High Elven units change side to join the new Dark Elves, cities in a set area rebel and a few settlers spawn in Naggaroth as Malekaith rebels and begins to fight his kin

Nehekhara: -3000 to -2700: First Dynasty of Khermi founded (there are two options here)

Midean civilization begins (represented by barbs in bad lands to limit Khermi's Northern expansions)

-2000 Massive human invasion from Eastern Steppes (through Kislev into the Empire and beyond) [in game terms represented by a large barbarian invasion and new barb cities sprining up in the current state of the Empire and Southern Kiselv to fill up the empty areas that have been destroyed by chaos and to put pressure on the High Elves and Dwarves to leave and retreat]

-2000 Nagash is born (Khermi could intially be represented by barbarian cities (will become Khermi (playable) when they all die )

Lhamia: 1800 not sure if we really need them... but they will probably have a start similar to Ethopia (not terribly fertile but protected by terrian)

-1780 At some stage a city called Tylos is founded in the Blighted Masrhes... destroyed (I think this coulld be our Skaven holding city to keep them small at the start )

-1666 Massive Chaos invasion into Dark Elven lands begins [represeented by a sudden spike in Chaos attacks in Naggaroth coming at Clar Ghrond, Har Gareth and probably ships heading towards Karond Kar]

-1589 High Elves begin to abandon colonies on the Old World (Elves left behind see this as a betrayal) to battle Dark Elves

-1502 Sith Rionnasc falls to Dwarves same turn Athel Lorien is founded [start of wood elven civilization]

Badlands same turn Goblins invade bad lands and found cities there (Hittite civilization destroyed)[/b]

-1500 massive Volcanic explosions and Earthquakes ruin much of the Dwarven old Empire [represented how in the game? volcanoes appear and destroy cities?] Karak Ungor: falls to Goblins, Karak Varn floods and falls to Goblins and Skaven, Dwarf mines in Dragonback Mountains fall, Mad Dog Pass and Gunbad fall. Dwarven trading settlements along Urskoy and Upper Talabec abandoned.

Almeca civilization begins in old world in the south [represented by massive barbarian invasion and foundation of cities in the South of Lustria]

-1399 Skaven Clan Pestilens occupy ruined city of Quetza, spread plagues throughout Lustria. [represented ingame by a massive plague that hits the Lizardmen, Amazons, and whatever barb cities there are (helps clear away lots of spare old units (a Rhye innovation))

-1300(odd) Mount Silverspear falls, Dwarves abandon Eastern World Edge Mountains (Massive barbarian invasion of goblins (will occupy cities and have new ones spring up on plains of Empire)

-1163 Nagash launches war on Priest Kings, Nagash's first assault defeated. Nagash unleashes plague on land. New undead army invades land of Priest Kings and sweeps all before them. Alcadizaar brought in chains to be tormented by Nagash. (another alternate begginging for khermi)

-1000 Lands surrounding Athel Loren settled by Bretonni tribe who trade with Wood Elves. (early beggining of Brettionia... although i think this would be reprsented by the founding of new barb cities or an indipendant city ala Rhyes)

Norsca: Founded here... since it needs time to shore up its borders

Araby: -900 barb cities allready present in Araby culture shocks them into joining a new greater Araby

Tilea: -800 Tilea fall briefly into a united nation... cities allready present culture flip into a new unified Tilea with similar objectives to Rome in Rhyes but more limited in scope i think... a few cities in Brettonia, a few in the bad lands and a few border princes... and maybe 1 in Estalia

Estalia: -300 maybe we should drop tileas objectives concerning Estalia because of a close start

Empire: 0 date when Sigmar is born foundation of Empire

Kislev: 300-400 (although im sure it was quite abit later) founded with a large army moving through the High Pass... with Praag, Erengrad, and Bolgasgrad founded allready Kislevites only founded Kislev City itself the rest they took off... some other people

brettonia: Founded by Guilles Le Breton around 300-400