New SG!!! Regent? Emperor?

Bummer, don't know what I'm doing wrong w/the save upload, Reg. If it won't come up, same deal as before, right click link and paste address in the info. Then it will let you download. I'll try to figure out what I'm doing wrong.
 
Okay, so here's the write-up (finally, i know, and out of order too)

Aztecs are polite; we are up HBR; their military is strong compared to us.
Iroquois are polite; we are up HBR and Writing; their military is the same size.
Inca is cautious; they are up Math and Map Making; their military outnumbers us.
Greece is cautious; we are up HBR and Writing; their military is the same size.


Turn 0 (1000 BC):
Bonampak, a pop 1 city, was on a settler? Settler -> Barracks, due in 10.
Change slider to 3/5/2 to get ppl happy in Chichen Itza. Literature still due in 2 turns; income moves up to 3gpt and start working that entertainer in CI. Pyramids now due in 9.
Change Quirigua from temple to Curragh. Need to get more contacts.
Tikal: Temple -> Granary. My reasoning is that expanding the cultural boundaries will not help Tikal's growth at all, while a granary will.
Yaxchilan: Spearman -> Granary. I want to turn this town into a worker factory.

Turn 1 (975 BC):
Ho-hum

IBT:
Discover Literacy. Begin Research on Philosophy, slider to 2/6/2, due in 7 with 2gpt for income. My goal is to turn us into a republic, if possible.

Turn 2 (950 BC): Incas won't trade Map Making or Mathematics for Literacy; Lit + Philo will budge them from one of those techs.

Turn 3 (925 BC): Workers connect road to Lagartero.
Incans have shopped MM and Math, so we can trade for them now:
Aztecs will go Lit + 146g for MM and Math OR Lit + HBR for MM, Math, and 46g
Greece will do HBR for Math + 66g OR Math for 177g
Inca will do Math + MM for Lit + 138g
The Iroquois have been left behind... so I choose to do business with the Aztecs

Establish an embassy with the Aztecs for 40g: Tenochtitlan is size 5 with 2 spearmen garrisoned. Will complete the Pyramids in 27 turns.
Embassy with the Iroquois for 34g: Salamanca is size 1 with 3 spearmen and a settler. Will complete Pyramids in 128 turns.
Embassy with the Inca for 38g: Cuzca is size 6 with 2 spearmen and will complete the Oracle in 19 turns. Iron is located near Cuzca but is not hooked up.
Embassy with Greece for 37g: Athens is size 3 with 2 hoplite defenders; will build the Colossus in 27 turns.

At end of turn we still have 83 gold and 3gpt income.

Since we will (almost assuredly) build The Pyramids first, I switch Yaxchilan from Granary to Javelin Thrower. Infrastructure not as important for this city since I plan to make it a worker/settler factory. Also I change Tikal from Granary to Library.

Dang it, learning MM switched our Curraughs to Galleys automatically... An extra billion turns until those come out now.

IBT:
Barbarian horseman rears it's ugly head in the south, near Lagartero.
Bonampak: Barracks -> Swordsman
Copan: Spearman -> Barracks
Yaxchilan: Javelin -> Catapult. Cats make good defense, believe it or not, and it also times well with the building of the Pyramids / growth of Yaxchilan.

Turn 4 (900 BC):
Newly formed Spearman from Copan moves along the road to Lagartero to protect the workers there. Those works move across the river to stay away from the barbarians.
Workers connect horses near Yaxchilan; Bonampak switches from Swordsman to Horseman.

IBT:
Barb horseman moves onto road to persue our unprotected workers.

Turn 5 (875 BC):
Warrior from Yaxchilan headed to Chichen Itza to serve as MP so I can free up Lux rate.
Slider to 3/5/2; Philo still in 4, income back up to 3gpt.

Turn 6 (850 BC):
Inca are now up both Philo and Construction.... so it looks like some trading happened without us, and probably with a civ we don't have contacts with. :( We have Philo in 3 turns, but that won't be nearly worth as much. Inca wants 2gpt + 90g for Philo, and won't trade Construction.

Turn 7 (825 BC):
Slider to 4/4/2; Philo still in 2, income to 10gpt. At least the cost of Philo dropped enough for us to make some more money off of it...
Workers near Tikal (finally) clear that jungle and build a road to celebrate.

IBT:
Pyramids completed in Chichen Itza, and triggers our GA... Who wants to go to war? Or maybe some infrastructure is in order; I really am a builder at heart. Maybe we should try for a 20k cultural win, though it'd be a little difficult now.
Chichen Itza (20 shields per turn!) starts production on Barracks.
Our palace gets a new lawn.

Turn 8 (800 BC):
Yaxchilan switches from a catapult to barracks. Changing strategies yet again; I plan on whipping our military into shape with our early GA. Slider to 5/3/2, 18gpt, philo in 1.

IBT:
Philosophy learned; research switched to Code of Laws, due in 8 with slider at 1/7/2.

Turn 9 (775 BC):
Here I have been harping about not expanding, and I haven't even made a small effort to do so...

Greece is so backwards I trade the HBR for 66g; this gives us a bit of cash and still keeps them 3 techs behind. Tempted to sell Philo to the Aztecs for 84, but I may want to keep that as a trade chip a little later on.

IBT:
Chichen Itza: Barracks -> Mausoleum of Mausollos, due in 10. Say Hurrah for wonders.
Tikal: Library -> Barracks.
Aztecs are building Statue of Zeus.

Turn 10 (750 BC):
Twiddling of thumbs commenses.

IBT:
Yaxchilan: Barracks -> Settler.
Copan: Barracks -> Horseman.
Inca are buildilng Great Library.

Turn 11 (730 BC):
More twiddling.

IBT:
Bonampak: Horseman -> Horseman.

Turn 12 (710 BC):
Horseman from Bonampak moves north to explore

Turn 13 (690 BC):
Even more twiddling.

IBT:
Lagartero: Galley -> Worker.

Turn 14 (670 BC):
Twiddling is sure fun.

IBT:
Learn CoL, on to Currancy (due in 10).
Tikal: Barracks -> Settler.
Yaxchilan: Settler -> Worker. This city is a great 2-turn worker factory for the duration of the GA.

Turn 15 (650 BC):
Settler moves NE to found a new city.

IBT:
Copan: Horseman -> Horseman.

Turn 16 (630 BC):
Settler continues en route, galley sails to the southwest tip of the continent, and the horseman moves north of Cuzco along the coast.

IBT:
Yaxchilan: Worker -> Worker.
Bonampak: Horseman -> Horseman.

Turn 17 (610 BC):
Calakmul founded northeast of Yaxchilan, nestled at the foot of the mountain chain there. Begins production of Warrior, due in 5.

IBT:
Lagartero: Worker -> Courthouse.
Quirigua: Galley -> Courthouse.

Turn 18 (590 BC):
Galley sets sail north of Quirigua.

IBT:
Iroquois ask us politely to leave.
Galley in west attacked by barbarians. Wins but redlines.
Tikal: Settler -> Settler.
Yaxchilan: Worker -> Worker.
Americans(!) settle Houston to the west of our cities. The world must be filling up.

Turn 19 (570 BC):
Make contact with Lincoln. He is polite, about the same militarily, and way, way, behind in technology. But he does have Construction and 70g, which he parts with both for Literature and HBR.
Galley in the west spots red borders!

IBT:
Chichen Itza: Mausolem of Mausollos -> Library, due in 4. Slider changed to 2/7/1. Feel free to veto this, whoever is up next.

Turn 20 (550 BC):
Make contact with Germany. Germany is up Polytheism we are up Math, Philo, CoL, Lit, and MM. Trade Math and Lit for Poly + 53g.
Embassy with America: Washington D.C. is size 5, two garrisoned spearmen, and will finish The Oracle in 13 turns.
Embassy with Germany: Berlin is size 4, two garrisoned spearmen, and will finish Oracle in 20 turns.

Move settler from Tikal to its settle spot: target location is 1 tile N of the nearby spearman, 2 tiles west of its current location. Spearman is to be it's designated garrison.


Okay, so that's my 20. I think we'll be okay. I am fiddling with the idea of a 20k culture win, as I have never done that before, and Chichen Itza already has two wonders to its name (with about 5 left to build in the AA, so it can probably get at least one more especially with the GA). As for military, we are sound now. I built horsemen because we need military that can quickly move from one end of our empire to the other, depending on who attacks us: basically I was thinking defensively (and later on knights and then cavalry are the way to go). However, if another player wants to make an offensive against another civ in the AA / early MA then it would be better to do it with swordsmen / medieval infantry.

Sorry it took me so long to post this.
 
Well, I definitely think we're in better shape now. Military respectable, tech parity, and a fair number of cities. :goodjob:

Starting to run out of city spots. May want to consider putting a city in between the two Inca cities, Olly and Anda. I know it could risk flippage, but it would be nice to deprive Inca of that iron, and get ourselves a backup supply.

Oh, I also found the save.
SAVE
 
Got it, although I won't be able to play until this evening after work. Can somebody post a screenshot so we can start a discussion on next moves?
 
Let's see if I did this right.



 
As I stated earlier, there aren't many city spots left. One potential north of Bonampak, one on the western tip of the island, the iron location I previously mentioned, and one can probably be built SE of CI, more towards the greeks.

I think the Inca's time is drawing near. We are sandwiched now and have an absurd amount of borders for the number of cities we have. We need more land, and less borders to protect. We can probably draw the Germans into any war with the Incas as Bismarck is quite the warmonger.

the Iroquois and Americans will be pretty easy to bottleneck when the time comes, so they should be pretty easy pickings.

Tough to make any real observations of Koreans, Germans, Aztecs, or Greeks because we can't see their territory as well.

I would suggest building any cities you can, then gearing up for war with Incas, Reg. The thing that may be a pain with them is that most of their cities have no culture, so we may end up autorazing some of their cities only to resettle them later. Of course, in any war I would recommend sending a horseman directly at their iron. without swords they'll be much weaker.
 
Jeez, Wes, the Incas really got you going didn't they? lol. What sort of objectives for such an operation do you have in mind? Just want to point out that (a) we'll probably trip their GA at some point, and (b) they'll come at us with more than 4 warriors next time. My thoughts are that the borders aren't going to shrink, we're merely moving the line north. Reg may be able to build a couple settlers and fill in spots, but I'd focus on swords in the queue if the decision is a near-term conflict. Incans are still in expansion phase, but that will be over soon, as their northern coast fills out. Suggest Operation "Conquerer's Revenge." We send 4 swords each against Andahuaylas and Vilcabmaba, with 1 settler in reserve in case of auto-raze. By D+2, we likely win both of those with at most two defenders, spear/warrior. 6 swords to Vitcos, following the east bank of the river. Upon victory, build walls in Vitcos ASAP, whip as needed. Next move is replace some with spear reserves, send some of those Vitcos swords to Vilcas. Again, likely a 2 defender city, so it goes. Like a settler reserve there also. You know Iroquois just have settlers waiting to jump on open terrain. That now gives us a good line to hold for subsequent ops to Tiwa or Ollan, or wait for a peace deal. Wouldn't mess with Areq just yet, all his counterattacks would come off the mountains, and it would get bloody. Once war over, go Republic. May be a bit limited for some, but given what we could muster in short order, certainly within our capabilities.
 
Do we really want to take on the Inca now? I know I wasn't there when they defiled our homelands and lay waste to our city in the north, but maybe a war to our south against the Aztecs would better suit us first. Taking on teh smaller Aztecs and Greeks (who are both further behind the technology race, also) would leave us with one large front to the Inca in the north. It could be a quick war, with the only problem probably being getting over the mountains to the first line of Aztec cities in the first bit of the war; nothing our swordsmen can't handle, however.

I think it's a good alternative to fight a war that we could easily and quickly win, so when the time comes to crush Inca, we will be that much more secure to do so.
 
Hmmm....And I thought Wes was our resident warmonger! I suggested taking down 4 cities, maybe 5, with perhaps a dozen defenders, mostly spear and warrior between them. If I understand, this proposal is to pull down two civilizations. Would a southern operation would be the quicker and easier conflict? The Greeks will be digging in with at least Hoplites, a 3 defense. I believe it would be a long conflict, knock us behind in the tech race, and put us in a weakened state against the second lead power of the world, with our main combat force far from Inca-land. They come at us while we're slugging it out in the suburbs of Tenochticlan, and we are in serious trouble. I'm not talking just the Inca's, without our own MA's they'll buy alliances with the Iroquois and Americans; now we're up against perhaps 3 AI's in their GA. Don't get me wrong, maybe I'm not seeing quite the same picture. As a larger strategy it sounds good, but in terms of it's sheer size, minimum 15 cities, it's well beyond our means at one time, IMHO. What sort of force do you think we would need to field in order to carry out your plan, and what time frame would you give it? Would you want to MA with other civs to pull this off. If so, which ones? We'd risk being in despotism for a long time if we go all the way with this strategy. A short-conflict scenario gets us to Republic sooner, with a better shot at Knight's Templar. A Crusader Army at 5-3 each will definitely do some serious damage against an opponent, trust me.
 
It sounds like a majority of my turn will be cranking out Swords, with some carnage to follow shortly after, but (sniff, sniff) not in my turns.

We're going to get Republic in 7 turns, should we hold the switch to Republic until after our major/minor war is done?

Any opinions on tech trading with some weaker opponents to possibly boost our treasury a little and improve relations?

Reg
 
Alright, so maybe I have been a bit over the top in my desire to hurt the Incas, but at this juncture I do believe it is a safer option, even though they're the larger civ.

The Aztecs three closest cities, obviously the first targets, are all nestled in the hills and mountains. That will make our losses more severe as we'll be attacking at a disadvantage. Even if we used a quick strike and then peace, two of those three cities are going to grow very slowly and would not be a beneficial addition for quite some time. Atzca shoud be flipping to us soon either way.

As M60 mentioned, the greeks will have hopplites running around everywhere. They are however the smaller civ, so any damage we do now would cripple them for the game, more than likely. My only other problem with them is that their cities would all be a bit distant from our cities.

And then theres my friends, the Incas. I prefer an attack more like M60 suffested for them, except I usually try to strike at once. 3 -4 swords + 1 horse per city should certainly be sufficient against the four cities. Declare war, move them in to position, take all four cities next turn. Unlikely any significant reinforcements near any of the cities. Sue for peace. We already know the Inca have room for a few more cities, and this will give us a few more cities (plus whichever spots we manage to grab peacefully). Unfortunately two of the three cities do have significant jungles, which will slow their growth.

On a side note, we should consider a location for the FP as we must be approaching the OCN (not sure what it is, but we're at 11). I might suggest Lagartero, or Quiriga as they are both a bit distant, but both have the oppurtunity to be strong cities.
 
If major war is the vote, I'd wait for someone to discover Monarchy, trade for it, convert to that, and attack, then peace, decide on Republic, although think I'd wait for Demo. If minor war, attack, peace, Republic. Trade where we can, but keep a couple advances in reserve to buy MAs. If no war, build some marketplaces, and wait for a war to develop where we can pick up some real estate.
 
FWIW, I generally try to get anything I can for techs in the ancient age, as it's usually a trading bonanza anyhow.

Switching to Republic will be OK as long as we are just planning a quick war. The drawback is that we've already got more units than would be allowed. The unit costs will be high if we keep cranking out swords.

BTW - I don't see why you can't enjoy the carnage, Reg. We've already got 6 swords, one in a turn, and 5 warriors we could upgrade. We have the four horsemen (ha-ha) already. Just pump out a few defensive units to replace them as MP's and have at em. :hammer:
 
I'd most respectfully disagree on kicking off right this minute. You don't want to be kicking yourself by coming up a unit short of city capture, then watching 3 or 4 AI spearmen reinforce the city. We not have to only take ground, we have to hold it. And you want those stand-by settlers in tow as well. Before it's over, we'll all have a shot at mortal combat, have no fear. Those Incan cities to our immediate north won't grow significantly as long as he's in expansion mode.
 
Sorry I didn't play last night, 7-year old to the hospital. Maybe you should skip my turn, I'm not sure I'll be able to play tonight.

Sorry all.
 
No sweat, Reg. Hope it's nothing too serious and that your kid feels better soon. :)
 
You know, I was thinking, (dangerous, I know) I'm the only warmonger, and Conqeuror asked to not go for domination. I believe spaceship is very possible, however, but I dislike that victory. Since we have yet to name a specific victory goal, I'll be the first. I say we go for cultural with diplomacy as a fallback. I think cultural will be the most difficult in our situation, so let's see what we can do with it?

If we get to say, 2030 and won't be able to make it, then we could work on a diplomacy victory. (but W/O the MA or MPP exploit)

Any takers, or do you guys have another preference?
 
Here's my dilemna. I'd be sold on the 20K culture victory if CI could get the Hanging Gardens. We've got 3 wonders plus library. The problem is the Great Wall. All the other civs have been cascading their wonder production, as the existing wonders have come off the shelf. Once the GW goes, I'm guessing the HG will be picked up by someone else. I doubt if we start now using GW as the pre-build, that CI's production is enough to make up the deficit. Now if GW goes away in the next few turns before someone gets to Monarchy, I believe that will clear the wonder queue, and we could go for it. Don't think SunTzu will be up for build by then. If you want to roll the dice, we could try it, switch CI to market or GW, need to improve a couple more tiles there quickly, maybe delaying any war plans since our main sword production facility will be down. We'll need to stay in Despot until the HG goes one way or another, maybe try Chivalry after Republic to cascade to ST if we lose the race to HG. Diplo will be tough. Don't know that Alex or Otto will live to see the vote. If you want to choke off Iro and America from the main continent eventually with a western drive, their vote will be hard to get. 100K culture means we need more cities soon (war) to get the long-term culture boost. My 2 cents anyways.
 
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