Moving towards Diety - need tips on finding my win condition

M

MrBadExample

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
9
Location
Sweden
Hello!
Long time lurker here, just returned to civ 5 not that long ago. Usually play on immortal, and I find one re-occuring problem; I can't decided on/find my win condition. How do you, more experienced players do it?

Sending some screenshots of my current Arabia game as an example, I can't decided whether to go for diplo, science or domination. Had a good start getting Petra in mecca and capturing London with camel archers. The problem i feel is i got a bit of everything, decent science, military snd money, but not excelling in any of these. When do you usually decide on what victory to go for?

Spoiler :


 
I guess I would finish from there with science.

The Arty will let you take some more land, but it will slow down soon.

Plan you tech path a little tighter and get scouting asap especially on continents.

Good luck, have fun!
 
budweiser said:
I guess I would finish from there with science.

The Arty will let you take some more land, but it will slow down soon.

Plan you tech path a little tighter and get scouting asap especially on continents.

Good luck, have fun!
Click to expand...

Thanks man! If going for a specific victory condition, especially culture, how early do you need to decide?
 
People will say turn 1. That would be for a fast finish turtle kind of game. If you rough up the AI, it buys you extra turns, I think. Science is the easiest victory when trying to break into deity.
 
budweiser said:
People will say turn 1. That would be for a fast finish turtle kind of game. If you rough up the AI, it buys you extra turns, I think. Science is the easiest victory when trying to break into deity.
Click to expand...

Ok nice. I don't like abusing Korea/babylon but i guess i'll do it for my first diety game :king:
 
I'm looking at the map and the first thing that comes to mind is: liberate Manila, take Attila's court. You have order so that means extra science and potentially extra production. Once you have dynamite you can make a greater push, until someone gets flight. Domination seems to be the fastest from this point. Use the scientists you have to bulb up to radio and it's pretty much game over.

I don't understand why you opened rationalism and never got secularism, this might be a problem for the domination because you might not even use the opener all the time if you conquer a lot. So either get secularism fast so you can tech better, or go to level 3 with order for the GE and GS. You have low CPT so I don't think you can effectivley do both.
 
gobbledydook said:
Diplo is the easiest victory by a mile.
But it almost feels like cheating.
Click to expand...

What should your policies be for trying diplo on diety? I feel like you want commerce, patronage and rationalism.

claudiupb said:
I'm looking at the map and the first thing that comes to mind is: liberate Manila, take Attila's court. You have order so that means extra science and potentially extra production. Once you have dynamite you can make a greater push, until someone gets flight. Domination seems to be the fastest from this point. Use the scientists you have to bulb up to radio and it's pretty much game over.

I don't understand why you opened rationalism and never got secularism, this might be a problem for the domination because you might not even use the opener all the time if you conquer a lot. So either get secularism fast so you can tech better, or go to level 3 with order for the GE and GS. You have low CPT so I don't think you can effectivley do both.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips! Attila is definetly next in line, his army is knights + xbows.

I opened rationalism while waiting for ideology, then i got the bonus science from factories asap. Is this just bad timing for me, or would you rather go secularism before ideology?
 
MrBadExample said:
I opened rationalism while waiting for ideology, then i got the bonus science from factories asap. Is this just bad timing for me, or would you rather go secularism before ideology?
Click to expand...

I assume you got 2 free tenets and then went for Worker Faculties with the next SP.
At that point worker faculties was a little better than secularism (not by much but it's better, plus it gives you affordable factories in your weaker cities), so it's worth it.
 
From where you are a Science Victory is guaranteed, but probably not the fastest. A science-oriented Domination Victory will probably be faster and teach you a lot about Deity. Your neighbours look really weak. Go for Artillery into Great War Bombers and you should be able to finish the game. If not you can still do a Science Victory at any point in the game, the AI almost never wins Science before T300...

You're doing very well for a first-time Deity player. Your tech rate is decent, your SPs were chosen wisely (the opener is one of the best things about Patronage. leaving out Secularism is terrible, but faster Factories are worth it. if your culture game was a little stronger you'd be looking at 500 Science per turn easily). Your tech path looks solid as does your army. Population is pretty good for a 5 city start, too. Very nice job. I remember my first Deity win, finished somewhere around ~T280 with Korea.. I had three Scientists spawning between 290 and 300. Timing is off the essence :lol:
 
claudiupb said:
I assume you got 2 free tenets and then went for Worker Faculties with the next SP.
At that point worker faculties was a little better than secularism (not by much but it's better, plus it gives you affordable factories in your weaker cities), so it's worth it.
Click to expand...
Yea i got the 2 free tenents from using oxford on radio. Going for secularism now

yung.carl.jung said:
From where you are a Science Victory is guaranteed, but probably not the fastest. A science-oriented Domination Victory will probably be faster and teach you a lot about Deity. Your neighbours look really weak. Go for Artillery into Great War Bombers and you should be able to finish the game. If not you can still do a Science Victory at any point in the game, the AI almost never wins Science before T300...

You're doing very well for a first-time Deity player. Your tech rate is decent, your SPs were chosen wisely (the opener is one of the best things about Patronage. leaving out Secularism is terrible, but faster Factories are worth it. if your culture game was a little stronger you'd be looking at 500 Science per turn easily). Your tech path looks solid as does your army. Population is pretty good for a 5 city start, too. Very nice job. I remember my first Deity win, finished somewhere around ~T280 with Korea.. I had three Scientists spawning between 290 and 300. Timing is off the essence :lol:
Click to expand...

Thanks! My plan is to kill Wu and Atilla and see whats the fastest from there. I got a really lucky opening with Petra + Desert folklore capital, and good expansion from there. + camel archers are ridiculous :king:
 
Picking a VC makes it much easier to create a coherent plan. For example when it comes to the tech-path.

Why did you go for Radio if you want Domination? Similarly, why did you go for Dynamite if you want to go to Space?

A particular VC is eased by a correct tech-path - getting certain key techs as soon as possible. The rest is just taken because they are a prerequisite to get something you want.
 
donkeyfish said:
Picking a VC makes it much easier to create a coherent plan. For example when it comes to the tech-path.

Why did you go for Radio if you want Domination? Similarly, why did you go for Dynamite if you want to go to Space?

A particular VC is eased by a correct tech-path - getting certain key techs as soon as possible. The rest is just taken because they are a prerequisite to get something you want.
Click to expand...

Excatly this is my problem, i want to tech, but also a strong army. And city-state allies, and culture, and wonders, and religion etc...

So the important thing is to choose one focus and then sticking with it, rather than to choose the correct focus for the situation?
 
Without a VC, your situation has no correct focus. Too many decisions are dependent on how you would like to win.

Some exceptions though, like pure efficiency gains - e.g. working a 3f1h tile instead of 2f1h.
Early in the game a lot of stuff is similar regardless of your plan. But already t15-25 you decide between Tradition and Liberty e.g.

Of course, on some maps a particular VC is easier/harder than the others. But I still think all VC are possible on (almost) all maps.
 
VC can be map dependent, and some are easier than others to "pick." I generally play immortal, but dabbling in deity now. If I'm not playing something from GOTM, I usually random roll games on immortal. Recently, I rolled an archipelago Brazil game. Well, duh, turtle Culture from the start.

Next I rolled a fractal Attila game. Initially, I went straight domination, playing Honor/Commerce/Autocracy as the plan. After conquering three civs, looking at techs and seeing how the map was laid out, I switched gears to science and won easily in about 300 turns. That was with an Honor start, gear shifting over to Rationalism and Order later.

In most cases, I start out expecting to fight, and then I'll dictate my VC from there. Generally by turn 100 I'll know what the goal is, but sometimes it's even later. Early domination play can give you a pretty big margin for error, but it gets harder on Deity since you're so much further behind.

Still, I know a few players I read here who dominate until they can pretty well dictate whatever VC they want. I think playing more for war on higher difficulties makes the game easier since our inherent advantage against the AI is unit positioning, movement, and tactics. That's true at all levels, but becomes more important the harder the difficulty, IMO.

Sometimes, when you've got a runaway you're just going to have to impose your will at some point to win. In that regard, I think playing early game domination, but bee lining education provides the most flexibility. You get better fighting with ancient/classical era units, you upgrade to composite and Xbows, impose your will early and still haven't really altered the tech path for the peaceful VCs. If you try to beeline machinery for xbow rush, it's harder to shift gears IMO.
 
donkeyfish said:
Without a VC, your situation has no correct focus. Too many decisions are dependent on how you would like to win.

Some exceptions though, like pure efficiency gains - e.g. working a 3f1h tile instead of 2f1h.
Early in the game a lot of stuff is similar regardless of your plan. But already t15-25 you decide between Tradition and Liberty e.g.

Of course, on some maps a particular VC is easier/harder than the others. But I still think all VC are possible on (almost) all maps.
Click to expand...

Sounds good, i'll try to make a plan asap from now on. My tthought process behind trad/liberty is usually just "4 or less cities, trad, 5 or more liberty".


belligerent said:
VC can be map dependent, and some are easier than others to "pick." I generally play immortal, but dabbling in deity now. If I'm not playing something from GOTM, I usually random roll games on immortal. Recently, I rolled an archipelago Brazil game. Well, duh, turtle Culture from the start.

Next I rolled a fractal Attila game. Initially, I went straight domination, playing Honor/Commerce/Autocracy as the plan. After conquering three civs, looking at techs and seeing how the map was laid out, I switched gears to science and won easily in about 300 turns. That was with an Honor start, gear shifting over to Rationalism and Order later.

In most cases, I start out expecting to fight, and then I'll dictate my VC from there. Generally by turn 100 I'll know what the goal is, but sometimes it's even later. Early domination play can give you a pretty big margin for error, but it gets harder on Deity since you're so much further behind.

Still, I know a few players I read here who dominate until they can pretty well dictate whatever VC they want. I think playing more for war on higher difficulties makes the game easier since our inherent advantage against the AI is unit positioning, movement, and tactics. That's true at all levels, but becomes more important the harder the difficulty, IMO.

Sometimes, when you've got a runaway you're just going to have to impose your will at some point to win. In that regard, I think playing early game domination, but bee lining education provides the most flexibility. You get better fighting with ancient/classical era units, you upgrade to composite and Xbows, impose your will early and still haven't really altered the tech path for the peaceful VCs. If you try to beeline machinery for xbow rush, it's harder to shift gears IMO.
Click to expand...

Nice tips, ty! Still cant conquer the world without an op UU like Camel archers though :lol:
 
I think the most important thing of all is to sell all your spare resources for 2 gpt, and your spare luxes for 7 gpt or 240 gold. Here's where EUI really helps a lot, you get tired of clicking 2 gpt every time when you have like 10 iron to sell, but EUI does that automatically. I think this was the biggest thing that put me up to a Deity level player.

Also, bribing your neighbours. I like to have everyone in the game at war with each other. Pay an enemy to fight your friend, and don't feel guilty about it.
 
Decide before you set up the game. Then you have a complete framework for considering every move within. If you choose Domination beforehand then T0 when you see a Gold tile next to a river, move Settler onto that since the great 2 GPT from T0 is gonna be excellent throughout the game for warmongers.

A warmongers tech path will be very different as well. He might enter Medieval through Guilds, Renaissance through Banking, Industrial through Fertiliser, etc.
 
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