~help Venice on deity~

hi guys i wanna ask something as newbie.
tonight i wanna play venice on my first deity, because i love tall empire than wide .
im bad at managing so many cities... ,
this my question :
1.what worldwonder i must go first?
2.what technology i must have/really important?
3.can i have religion? at least a pantheon?
4.what victory i must go? i know venice is for cultural, can i win domination? because its like playing OCC (almost forgot IDEOLOGY).
5.what about puppeted CS? i have resource and trade-route?

my advanced setup = 41 CS ,max AI (21), no ancient ,no barb ,legendary start ,marathon ,pangaea.

sorry for many asking and please give tips and trick you have .
i just wanna feel how AI got mad or war each other
sorry for my bad english .

1. world wonders aren't that important. You will lose a lot of the early ones as the AI starts with half of the ancient techs. I usually try to get Oracle as my first as the AI under-prioritizes it and I can usually score it. And the free policy and culture is very nice. Hanging Gardens is possible, but a gamble as the AI love it, unfortunately--if you can manage to get it, it's probably the best early wonder for venice though.

2. I would prioritize science techs and techs that yield you trade routes (venice gets double trade routes so +2 new ones for every one of these techs) and also techs that yield you growth as you want venice growing like crazy. Don't skip all the military ones though as you might be rushed early.

3. I wouldn't try for a religion (and look at my subtitle...I ALWAYS try for a religion) trust me, you are severely handicapped in faith generation as venice with one city and nearly no chance to get stonehenge. If you try you'll probably waste hammers and end up with a crappier one then the AI will give you. As venice it will be hard to spread your religion too so you won't really miss having the founder belief. Plus, as a neutral civ and one of the largest world cities the AI will spread a lot of religions to your city, giving you the chance to buy most of the religious buildings over the course of the game anyway. YOu'll miss out on ALL of that if you try to defend your own and it will probably be a crappy one.
I WOULD however, build 1 shrine early and hope for a pantheon. chances are you'll keep it a while and they can really give some great short-term benefits. For instance, have 4 truffles? +1 food from camps will give you killer pop early as venice. Have a lot of a special lux or resource? Pick the culture pantheons for that kind of resource. The +10% growth is less powerful as you'll probably lose your pantheon before it is that significant. The camp one is far better. Also, if you are coastal with 2-3 water resources the +1 hammer from fishing boat one is a nice short-term bonus--lots of great options for venice--usually with only a 5-turn investment in a shrine.

4. You can win tons of ways as venice. Diplomatic with patronage is probably easiest, but you can also win cultural and domination. Scientific is probably hardest as your puppets take a science nerf and the AI starts ahead.

5. Yes. Puppet a CS EARLY on the water so you can send yourself a food trade-ship. It will really make venice grow. I would puppet at least two and be feeding yourself with food ships all game. With your extra trade routes you will hardly miss the gold.

thank you for your fast reply.
and few more thing..
can i rush to colossus at first? or take tech for improvement?
and yeah i wondering something, what different from sea-/-land trade?
i think they both proffitable

gratizzz said:

thank you for your fast reply.
and few more thing..
can i rush to colossus at first? or take tech for improvement?
and yeah i wondering something, what different from sea-/-land trade?
i think they both proffitable

Click to expand...

Sea trades make 2 times more.

The colossus, and even the great lighthouse, don't seem too high priority on the AI wonder spam list. I can usually grab one of them or even both no issue. Usually I'll grab writing, then the techs I need for my workers and sailing for sea trade, then go to iron working. I've never had to beeline it, but it's usually a wonder I always try for/get because I play a lot of coastal teams like carthage, venice, and portugal.

thank you so much for the information.
now i can play more relax
last thing, wgat pantheon i might choose?
1.Fertility Rites 10% faster Growth rates
2.God of the Sea +1 Production from Fishing Boats
3.Goddess of the Hunt +1 Food from Camps
i got a nice starter place, now i confuse to pick food or hammer...

3 fish 2 crab and 2 deer

once again thankyou guys have a nice day.

gratizzz said:

thank you so much for the information.
now i can play more relax
last thing, wgat pantheon i might choose?
1.Fertility Rites 10% faster Growth rates
2.God of the Sea +1 Production from Fishing Boats
3.Goddess of the Hunt +1 Food from Camps
i got a nice starter place, now i confuse to pick food or hammer...

3 fish 2 crab and 2 deer

once again thankyou guys have a nice day.

Click to expand...

With that many fish resources, I'd definitely say Gods of the Sea. Your production will be great, which is vital for Venice. Fertility is nice, but just use puppet cities to send venice food and you should be fine.

Tyrvos said:

With that many fish resources, I'd definitely say Gods of the Sea. Your production will be great, which is vital for Venice. Fertility is nice, but just use puppet cities to send venice food and you should be fine.

Click to expand...

Agree. Definitely Gods of the Sea one and crank out some work boats. I usually look for 3 camps before I pick the camp one. The food is usually better in the beginning than production as you get more production when you grow, but realize you need the tech for camps to get the effect which can be off your tech order--whereas the tech for trade ships AND work boats is the same one and already on your tech order. Fertility Rites is actually the weakest pick in this case. Reason being, most of the early game your are under +10 food so Fertility Rites actually yield LESS than 1 extra food. later, when you have enough extra food for it to be significant, the AI will evangelize you and you'll lose your pantheon so you want something that will have the greatest short term effect. (that you'll get the most out of early). Though if you can get 2 food trade ships up early Fertility Rites will be like an extra granary for you which isn't bad. I'd only consider it if I didn't have any resource/luxes that synergized with other pantheons, and even then, God-King might be better for Venice.

it all on the way...
and they already found 3 pantheon from T25-50 if i didn wrong.
i think i cant get pantheon because the faith always rising
or because the AI always use piety policies

thank you again guys . ~(-.-~) .
i will check this thread later for advice-tips-trick for Venice, bye

Yeah, I suspected that might happen. Sometimes you get lucky with a faith CS or ruin, but with venice you'll probably get one of the later pantheons. Just hold on, eventually you'll get it. In the meantime use your time to get up your work boats, as you wouldn't have gotten the effect until they were built anyway.

Once you get the tech for National College you can quick-build a temple to speed it up--or not depends on how close someone is to enhancing. Note that if someone enhances their religion before you found a pantheon you've lost the opportunity--no more pantheons can be made. In which case, that's fine, building 1 shrine wasn't a waste of time because eventually you can use that faith for a faith-building or something when the AI spreads their religion to you.

Best of luck! Sounds like it should be a fun game.

danaphanous said:

Best of luck! Sounds like it should be a fun game.

Click to expand...

well its not long game actually
im lost

it was because city state, napoleon and england already declare friendship and i use merchant of venice to make ally 2 city state with trade mission.
and i make napoleon angry.. i don know he was ally with that city state, 2 of them.
because that CS only maritime (i need food and sea trade route).
then he declare war on me followed england too.
i only have 3 crossbow and 1 pikeman, then england who close to me send knight and LONGBOW .
then after 10 turn dido declare friendship with them and DONE.. i cant keep my capital , what more teribble from longbow and naval attack
but that a good experienced , even i buy army until my gold zero i think i will lose
i will play deity again. or maybe im to focused with wonder
i love to have all wonder that have significant effect even i didn think about my military...
have any tips for defending from longbow archer? and so many naval attack from dido?
thx before .

With Longbows, you've got to get in there. Once you're in their face, they're no different to a Crossbow. Mounted units are pretty handy for their ability to quickly engage them.

My main decision with Venice is Colossus or HG. This decision is made by rivers and lakes; if I'll get a Garden in Venice, the extra money and trade routes tempt me, but if I have no freshwater HG means more GP's. I quite like Mausoleum as Venice can usually run lots of Specialists so it enhances Venice's money-making ability.

Tyrvos said:

With that many fish resources, I'd definitely say Gods of the Sea. Your production will be great, which is vital for Venice. Fertility is nice, but just use puppet cities to send venice food and you should be fine.

Click to expand...

Thats very bad advice btw. Gods of the Sea is the last thing you want to take as pantheon, no matter how many fishes you have, as you get no immediate benefit from it. Boats are very expensive and you should not build em before you secure the shore.
It only takes one barbarian galley to ruin everything you produced for tens of turns otherwise ... So first you need archers, all the other infrastructure, and then at some point - a boat.

Better invest these hammers in lighthouse, as it cannot be pillaged. I usually get boats very late in the game, and some games I do not even bother with em at all.

lindsay40k said:

With Longbows, you've got to get in there. Once you're in their face, they're no different to a Crossbow. Mounted units are pretty handy for their ability to quickly engage them.

My main decision with Venice is Colossus or HG. This decision is made by rivers and lakes; if I'll get a Garden in Venice, the extra money and trade routes tempt me, but if I have no freshwater HG means more GP's. I quite like Mausoleum as Venice can usually run lots of Specialists so it enhances Venice's money-making ability.

Click to expand...

The correct answer of this question is "neither". With so many trade routes you get enough gold, so you don't need the colossus and delaying NC so you get to mathematic and try the HG is not right for sure. Its quite possible that you do not even get it even then.

You can build super awesome Venice even without any early wonders.
Like the one on the screenshots.

Wonders built in these row: PT, Eiffel, Sidney (rushed), Cristo, Hubble, Big Ben. I could have some more, but it didnt really matter, I had enough faith for 2 more GE if needed.

And don't be fooled by the low income - before I started having fun with England, it was around 600 GPT, with a golden age running for around 35 turns ...
There are around 5 more cities that you do not see + 5 carriers, around 15 planes + several atomic submarines and destroyers


Most important thing is to get NC fast and to find a close coastal CS to buy. If you get optics fast, odds are that it will produce another MV at some point, but thats OK. It delays the GS, but you do not get many of these with Venice anyway. The puppet generates some science too, so its good enough compensation.

So feeding 2 ships the whole game + getting WLTKD immediately is WAY more important than getting unreliable wonders.

wow thanks for reply guys..
so at early game i must focus on military and trade route right?
but im a wonder lover its like i wanna have all wonder that have COOL effect on it (i don care with culture).
maybe i must give up on ancient wonder and classical too..
btw, did playing at pangea suck? because many CS at inland.
but if i play archipelago 22 player and 41 CS, the island is so small that can only build 2 city for them. or maybe because i use high sea level?
what is your map type dragonxxx?
and what advice to have FAST GROWTH at early game? except tradition?
its like resource, terrain, etc.
you guys COOL

dragonxxx said:

Thats very bad advice btw. Gods of the Sea is the last thing you want to take as pantheon, no matter how many fishes you have, as you get no immediate benefit from it. Boats are very expensive and you should not build em before you secure the shore.
It only takes one barbarian galley to ruin everything you produced for tens of turns otherwise ... So first you need archers, all the other infrastructure, and then at some point - a boat.

Better invest these hammers in lighthouse, as it cannot be pillaged. I usually get boats very late in the game, and some games I do not even bother with em at all.

Click to expand...

It's not bad advice. It makes fish resources even better, and as a coastal team (especially venice) you should have work boats and triremes built (the latter to defend you coast and trade routes). If you aren't building work boats for a coastal team, you're doing something wrong.

gratizzz said:

wow thanks for reply guys..
so at early game i must focus on military and trade route right?
but im a wonder lover its like i wanna have all wonder that have COOL effect on it (i don care with culture).
maybe i must give up on ancient wonder and classical too..
btw, did playing at pangea suck? because many CS at inland.
but if i play archipelago 22 player and 41 CS, the island is so small that can only build 2 city for them. or maybe because i use high sea level?
what is your map type dragonxxx?
and what advice to have FAST GROWTH at early game? except tradition?
its like resource, terrain, etc.
you guys COOL

Click to expand...

It's ok to go for a wonder early on, I'd say just one as most really unless you feel you can get another, since you need to devote production to other things. Linsday40k pretty much said the best early wonders to go for, I personally prefer colossus, but it does depend on your city situation too. For fast growth, make good use of internal trade routes from the sea, venice will get huge.

One other thing... if you start on a river next to a desert with a bunch of desert hills, Petra is amazing. Another thing about Colossus is it gives you GM points, which means a third city sooner, and extra gold production in the capital is cool with Venice, especially since Commerce is very attractive for them.

Tyrvos - please explain to me, when exactly do you have the time to build several work boats and triremes to guard em + trireme scouts, granary, worker(s), water mill, lighthouse, library and 1-2 cargo ships in the first 50-60 turns?

dragonxxx said:

Tyrvos - please explain to me, when exactly do you have the time to build several work boats and triremes to guard em + trireme scouts, granary, worker(s), water mill, lighthouse, library and 1-2 cargo ships in the first 50-60 turns?

Click to expand...

Depends on the situation. For example the production of my capital, how my neighbors are acting, and all the other factors of the game that make it impossible to plan out your future turns for the long-term perfectly. However, they are pretty important so they are a priority, considering fish resources tend to be powerful tiles when worked with boats so they help fix the downfalls of coastal cities.

playing deity for the first time using venice... Well, that is bold! To be frank i've tried playing deity for many times, and i've only won using the babylons, and that is because they are god tier civ.

Syailendra said:

playing deity for the first time using venice... Well, that is bold! To be frank i've tried playing deity for many times, and i've only won using the babylons, and that is because they are god tier civ.

Click to expand...

Venice on a water map is the easiest deity win you can get actually.