Community Deity Game #14 - The Celts

Not that I plan to get any of them, but shouldn't these also be included?

Longswordsmen
Marines
Mechanized Infantry
Landsknechts
Foreign Legion

Not mechanised infantry, no. The rest yes. I forgot about those.
 
DanQuayle chose this current set, and they were viewable for a while before the map was actually posted.
I agree with leaving them as-is for this map. But the achievements are likely to be reused for another game (assuming we keep the series going). So my comment about the point assignments not being comparable in difficulty was just an observation in that vein.

Not that I plan to get any of them...
You also need to know for the purposes of melee kill tally. Thanks for asking!

Not mechanised infantry, no. The rest yes. I forgot about those.
I understand the logic of excluding the mounted line, but why not MI? MI is just an upgraded Infantry. Are AA and Mobile SAM melee? How about Paratroopers and XCOM? I counted enemy scouts in my early melee kill tally. Also, I included brutes (but not barb archers and axmen). Was that wrong? I also counted melee units killed by my ranged units, and enemy melee units the AI threw against my city walls. Was that wrong? Or are we only suppose to count AI melee kills by our own melee units on our turn?
 
I've been pretty clear I think. Since I don't care about these points at all, you can decide among yourselves. But be aware that people won't be jumping forward to volunteer achievements when people want to pick apart every facet of them.

It's kinda clear that the idea of this challenge is to build as many Picts as possible and keep them until Infantry. I'm excluding Mechanised Infantry because they are vehicles that do 60 mph+. Acccordingly, XCOMs fly and Paras parachute in. The rest are on foot. They are footsoldiers in the classic sense.

The final list of Melee units:

Warriors (and Brutes)
Swordsmen
Spearmen
Pikes
Landsknechts
Longswordsmen
Muskets
Rifles
GWI
Foreign Legion
Infantry
Marines (although why anyone would make these is beyond me since they're inferior to Infantry)

I'm including Landsknechts and Marines since people might use them, but they are the only ones that are not on the Riflemen line with the Mod in place
 
Second play through from NC, more conventional SP choices, aiming for DOM, I did a little better. But only one cap by T292 when the faraway runaway launched. I was trying every dozen turns or so to bribe him into war or someone to DOW him. No one was bitting. At the end, I had 100+ gpt and still could not find any bribe takers!

I like this map, but I am getting a little burned out on, so I am just going to roll back to T126 for my last pre-Renaissance SP pick and see if I can cheese out a DiploVC. My other choice would be try 4 city Tradition.
 
100GPT seems very, very low. I'm around T230 and mine is nearly 1000GPT. It's really hard going buying and suiciding all these soldiers, but the end is in sight!

I have
Spoiler :
Copenhagen, Paris, Stockholm, Istanbul, and Rio. Only the two American civs to go.
If I can get them by T300, I'll be very, very happy.
 
I think the formula is based on the average number of cities over all civs.
 
Jumping late, I didn't expect to finish first ;)
I was however lazy and opted for the easy way also skipping some achievements :crazyeye:

Summary
Spoiler :
The map had lots of space to expand, however it also meant that neighbors were farther and worker steals less effective. I stole one from Denmark and multiple from Ur. After scouting LV, I decided I wanted to get my expo there asap. However, I saw a French settler escorted by a warrior heading that way. I made peace with Denmark and double DoW'd France with Harold's help. Nappy's warrior about to die, he decided to settle where he was, ie really close to Denmark and leaving LV up for grab. This would set the stage for an almost game long war between France and Denmark.

Civ5Screen0000.jpg

Denmark was stuck on 3 cities the whole game before its eventual demise (by my hand), but was able to keep up in a constant war with France which had 10+ cities. These two in a constant war and separated to the West by a desert from Sweden, I could breath peacefully all early game without problem.

I was a bit disappointed at the lack of forests and my religion was late in consequence. I took God of the Open Sky which allowed me to finish Liberty T80 without the help of any cultural CS. I went Liberty 7-city NC T82 and added 3 cities not too long after. After Biology, I would also settle 2 more cities to get more oil and fill out my territory before any other AI would. Most AIs were friendly with me early/mid game and simply asked to not settle near me and they complied. Funny thing, America coveted my lands early on despite being really far away from me.

Civ5Screen0001.jpg

As I said before, my religion (and faith output) was a bit lacking due to the lack of forest. Choosing a non-faith pantheon also didn't help. I founded the 3rd religion and picked Pagodas and Mosques, but wanted Religious Community. This forced me to invest some policies in Piety to have enough faith generation to make it worthwhile and get enough happiness in time. This delayed Rationalism a bit.

Barely won WF with Nappy at war with both Brazil and Denmark

Civ5Screen0006.jpg

I was second at Ideologies and picked Autocracy. (America was first and chose Order.) I was a bit worried when everyone else then picked Order including the Tourism leaders. Sweden however followed me in Autocracy and became a powerful ally. He was aiming for a Diplomatic victory and passed Autocracy as the WI which negated any Ideology pressure I had.

Started war with dozens of GWIs which were quickly supported by GWBs. I wanted to get to America asap as they were the tech leader and went full Rationalism. So I started to go for Brazil. However, after taking a few Brazilian cities, I was double DoW'd by Pedro's Order buddies Nappy and Sulei. I then focused on France and took Paris, followed by a quick peace. Since my forces were nearby, I then took Copenhagen for SoZ. I then went back to my original goal: stop America. I double DoW'd America with my Autocratic buddy Gustavus. During this time, America had beaten down the Iroquois and was occupied in the West. America had already a lot of Mobile SAM and B17s in his army and wasn't easy to take down. I took all his big cities to drag him down and be sure he couldn't weasel a SV. I also took Onondaga from Georgie. I then took Istanbul with Bombers and Paratroopers in a quick war. So essentially my war path was counter-clockwise around my buddy Sweden. But now the clock hit midnight and it was time to hit the clock dead center. By then Gustavus had a 650K army, I cheesed it out with Atomic Bombs and Paratroopers for Stockholm and the victory.

Civ5Screen0014.jpgCiv5Screen0020.jpg

Achievements
Spoiler :
1. The Melee Archipelago: keep a minimal ratio of x Melee unit per ranged or siege unit at all time during the game
d) 15 Melee unit per ranged/siege unit 4p
Never made a ranged or siege unit the whole game, so the ratio was easy to keep track of. I got one range unit from a military CS and disbanded it immediately. I also had one scarcher parked in a city.

2. Quad Pike: get x Melee units that have FOUR promotions other than Shock/Drill at the end of the game
a) 5 Melee units 1p
Despite finishing with more than 20 infantries, only 5 barely made the requirement and none were former Pictish warriors. Putting extra policies into left-side Honor also helped.

3. Whirling Skirmish: kill at least x enemy Melee units during the course of the game
d) 40 Melee units 4p
I killed more than 40 alone in my wars against Brazil and France. I stopped to count after that. I probably killed over a 100 in that game.

4. Ownership of the Isles: (from the Intro text) self-found x cities
d) 10 cities 4p
Liberty 7-city NC + 3 more shortly after + 2 more to get more oil and fill out my territory.
So 12 cities settled total.

5. Everlasting Victory: (from the Intro text) eliminate x AI from the game
0p
The map despite being an oval seems to have numerous islands in the ocean which the Ottomans couldn't resist to settle all over. Most AIs also went into Order city spam mode. So all this and starting war a bit late made me decide to not go after this achievement. Zulus and Denmark were the only AIs eliminated in my game.
 
Jumping late, I didn't expect to finish first ;)
I finished a while ago, but did not post.

Anyway, I won t281 CV, and I won on the same turn Washington had finished his spaceship. Not sure how I won.. must be that I was influential with everyone the turn before, thanks to 7 musicians. ;) The game became a chore for the second half with clicking "next turn." I just bought a new computer, and even it doesn't fly with those lategame turns on this huge (or large) map. Washington had 56 cities and went on a rampage, so that didn't help. I took Order because I knew I would have to max my tourism to him.
 

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@DanQ: There actually were plenty of forests that I added in to help encourage wide settling. You just had to find them! Congrats on winning!
 
So you're allowed to use bombers for achievement #1 keeping 15 melee per ranged? This will be easy as you can just spam bombers and finish everyone that way, eventually get to stealth bombers. In my game I interpreted bombers are just like ranged.
 
Honestly I'm completely through with achievements and the endless interpreting and reinterpreting of them, and the loopholes and everything else. I'm tempted just to not submit any more maps to the CDG because this whole thing is so annoying for me.

The idea of this map is to conquer using Picts and the like, with a minimum of siege if you want it, and to either win by wide violent culture or Domination.

I have seen people - notably Grendeldef - do domination without any ranged units. So I made a map that was perfect for it. On my playthrough I'm within sight of a domination win without ANY ranged or siege, and without bombers, which while not siege or ranged, are quite obviously not intended.

It's LIKE people want to do anything to get the achievements except follow the obvious path that I've been sprinkling breadcrumbs along since I even mentioned the idea of this challenge weeks before it even got posted.

So, in light of the neverending and steadfast refusal by anyone to follow this challenge properly, I'm gonna say now that the achievements for this map are whatever you want them to be. Use tanks if you like, or bombers or nukes. I don't care anymore.

Or just ya, know, use soldiers as I intended.

Up to you

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
Honestly I'm completely through with achievements and the endless interpreting and reinterpreting of them, and the loopholes and everything else. I'm tempted just to not submit any more maps to the CDG because this whole thing is so annoying for me.
I just noticed that the haggling over achievements goes back to CDG 1 and 2. Blatc started the side thread so we could work the details out ahead of time -- but that has hardly helped!

I really enjoy your maps. I am sorry you find the achievement part to be such a disincentive.
 
Yeah I think you guys need to decide which of the following methods to determine the achievements and interpretations you are going to use.

1. The host sets them, trying to be as clear as possible, and you just follow those
2. The host suggests them, but the community decide via consensus or democracy
3. You abandon achievements that are too complicated or are quantitative (my preference)

An achievement like 'Hard build Petra in your last city', boolean, is easy to understand and easy to achieve (or not!)

The complications begin when deciding how many points to assign to an achievement. I was methodical with the Gandhi IAG achievements, which I actually used my own pretty slick game as an example for. But then someone (Scib, maybe?) ends up with 500 happiness and the whole thing becomes a bit silly. Nothing wrong with what Scib did, but we shouldn't be trying to follow some rational template for achievements when they are so easily broken.

I think we're at the metaphorical point in time when we need to fix our Science Overflow bug. However you guys want to do it, I don't mind.

@Beetle: Part of the reason I'm a bit cheesed off with this particular challenge is that its the most simple idea yet: build lots of melee units and try to win with as few ranged and sieged as possible. If and when I win, I don't want to be the only one who put in all the effort suiciding riflemen into cities!

My final word to the people who want to wait til bombers: go play another fricken map! :D
 
I was methodical with the Gandhi IAG achievements, which I actually used my own pretty slick game as an example for. But then someone (Scib, maybe?) ends up with 500 happiness and the whole thing becomes a bit silly.
Thanks for that! Hilarious! I have not been playing/following the IAG so I would have missed it if you had not cited it here. I think we have been doing better with the CDG by aiming for fewer points from the get go.
 
This is quite interesting isn't that DanQuayle the one that help with setting up achievements? I agree that my India IAG game shows that achievements should be about boolean achievements, either you did it or not, and should be easily verifiable. It also easily limits the total number of points. Otherwise the achievements are too complicated and need to be prepared for interpretations. Also I would be open to just having a map with no achievement point system. For example this map can just be "domination or violent culture ONLY using pike/infantry line of units" Simple to interpret would you agree?
 
I find that settling so many cities makes it hard to go for early domination (pre-ideology), because of happiness constraints. In my game, the runaway was getting dangerously close to a SV, so I dealt with him the fastest way possible. I just prioritized actually winning the game over going for the 'spirit' of the game in this instance. The same map can evolve very differently from playthrough to playthrough making some specific achievement harder or easier depending on how it evolves.

Hats off to anyone clearing this map with only melee units. Your grind will be deserving of my appreciation :D
 
I think Dan was helpful in setting the achievements in a way that was easier to compute that my first suggestion, and I take responsibility for how shoddy that suggestion was, but really, I have to agree completely that if you're gonna have them, have simple to intepret booleans. Or don't have them ;)
 
This is a difficult game and I had to do quite a bit of reload. This time I actually took great care to make sure I don't suicide too many units.

Spoiler :

Religion is the easy part, took early pantheon with faith from copper, before I discovered the potential of DF to the west. Eventually got Pagoda + Mosque. Only problem was my religion can't spread passively to the west due to Ottoman's taking the 30% spread enhancer. That is way too strong on a wide map like this. Effectively half of my cities don't have my religion. Luckily he took the other 2 religious buildings.

Forward settled Sweden next to the NW, and more cities to surround his land, while at the same time Brazil got one of my preferred spots and I ended up also surrounding him, and DoW both of them to farm workers with my UU. Eventually I also planted another city close to the silk and Denmark might invade so I just joined his war against France to buy some time before I can get pikes to defend against his berserker rush. Meanwhile I kept Sweden busy with his neighbors while I prepare for war. I didn't delay pikes at all as I'm sure the UU won't last forever. I had to reload if I planted too many cities as 2-3 AI will simultaneously DoW me in this game and it's guaranteed loss. I think that number is around 6 and I had to stop and build NC. All expos prioritized units after the library while capital spammed settler.

First real war was against Denmark of course, except it is defensive in nature, as I didn't want to kill them until Musketmans, due to their dangerous melee unit. Eventually got them to accept peace. After that all wars were initiated by myself and Denmark was also the first to go after I made a deal with France. Pretty much it was a slaughter as French had their UU with my Musketmans against Danish UU which were an era behind. Also I started to get some melee ships to help as their geography made it difficult to use only land troops. Ships allow me to embark land units to get some extra attacks in, but they were too weak to capture cities until privateers.

I took great care to preserve the units either upgraded from UU or landsknecht as they both had free pillage promotion which is huge. It meant that they can pillage and stay fortified to heal. Too bad I don't have Pyramids until very late in the game and it can't be abused further. All other units were baits and sacrificed to keep others safe. I also have a scarcher that was useful for killing ships, and later got another XB and I have enough melee units. Both of these ended with range logistics quickly. I also took Honor to increase rate of XP and it certainly helped. I have many melee units with double cover, siege, march promotions and they are pretty strong. Some of them had double medic instead. I didn't see any point of getting blitz as I need to stop and heal anyway.

I was able to get several DoF for RA before the real wars and it helped science a lot as many of the AI spammed huge number of cities.

Next was Brazil and he took a while even if his man were longswords due to his GW. ALL my units had the Mt. Kilimanjaro promotion and it still took a long time due to only 1 movement. Meanwhile I got riflemans and started to also take Sweden, which is fairly weak by this time due to his wars and I killed him off easily, then on to Ottomans which was a joke since I'm sure all they did this game was to spam religion. After I was done with Brazil, I took out France with GWI which were my ally and even Hiawatha backstabbed me and I had no more friends but it wasn't a problem as I controlled the game by now. France took a long time to clear due to his resettling the spots left by Denmark. I had ironclads help capture some of these cities.

Once I had Infantry, I had to start on America as they were science lead and can get to atomic era for their UU if I wasn't quick. I used more GS to get anti air before that as they also seem to have GWB which can do quite a bit of damage left unchecked. I hope that I can kill off their oil supply before they get too far ahead and it worked. I also think what helped was Arts funding was passed which nerfed America by a lot, even though they had rationalism. I was able to finish America with Infantry but it took a very long time to do so even with both armies on him. Some of his later coastal cities to the north were taken with Destroyer help. Battleships, infantry, air, city attack can kill my units if I wasn't careful. I also reloaded several times to reposition my army so that at least I can't get attacked by air.

Iroquois were last but they were significantly easier than America and I just decided to get Hubble and bulb to get some Info era tech to have some fun. I got mechanized infantry against his pathetic army and it was fun. Also I forced him to switch ideology to Autocracy but it still left him with some -40 happiness. All his units die with 1 hit. At this point the game will end in 20 turns or so after internet to culture anyway so I had to finish it quick. I left their capital for last while I swim units to get all his cities. Satellites helped a bit here.

Happiness isn't a problem all game due to UB and double faith buildings. I had started the war without full commerce since I detoured honor/piety after liberty. At times I had over 100 happiness after ideology.

Achievement:
1. The Melee Archipelago: keep a minimal ratio of x Melee unit per ranged or siege unit at all time during the game
d) 15 Melee unit per ranged/siege unit 4p
(32 Mech infantry, 3 Modern armor, 7 Mobile SAM, 18 Destroyers) vs (2 Bazooka, 1 Nuclear sub)

2. Quad Pike: get x Melee units that have FOUR promotions other than Shock/Drill at the end of the game
b) 10 Melee units 2p
(only have 13 of these as I preferred to get 3x shock/drill other than some weird combos and I lost units)

3. Whirling Skirmish: kill at least x enemy Melee units during the course of the game
d) 40 Melee units 4p
(lost count of the total tally but no doubt this is an easy achievement)

4. Ownership of the Isles: (from the Intro text) self-found x cities
d) 10 cities 4p
(13 total, many of these after NC and to fill up the desert)

5. Everlasting Victory: (from the Intro text) eliminate x AI from the game
d) 7 AI 4p
(total domination)

Total 18 points


Spoiler :
 
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