Having trouble merging into a Battalion

Hi,

So, I have 3 Company sized Clubmen on the same tile that I want to merge into a Battalion, but the Merge Units option doesn't appear. Do I need a tech to merge into a Battalion?

There's 2 reasons you may be having trouble and I bring up both because I can't recall what clubmen start at off hand.

1) If any of the three units are part of a selection group they need to be completely ungrouped first.

2) Yes there is a limit to how many times units can merge and split and the limit is based on the era: 1 step up or down per era. Thus in the Prehistoric you can merge units once but not merge them again until the Ancient and so on.

Oh and they all must be fully healed and be of the same unit volume currently and have not moved this round.

I've had similar problems that were solved by arbitrarily moving the units unit the option appeared. I guess that part of the "selection group" issue.

Is size matter that popular of a play option? I don't think the AI handles it right.

Septentrion said:

I've had similar problems that were solved by arbitrarily moving the units unit the option appeared. I guess that part of the "selection group" issue.

Is size matter that popular of a play option? I don't think the AI handles it right.

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I believe more popular than not. What AI flaws do you feel it has? I know of one where it basically isn't taking enough risk when it starts to spread its cities, demanding instead that it have merged units to defend the settler. (Debateable whether this is really bad or not. It certainly slows their growth a lot but it also doesn't subject them to as much risk when getting their settlers out there.)

In other ways, however, I wonder how it has shown to be 'flawed'.

Thunderbrd said:

I believe more popular than not. What AI flaws do you feel it has? I know of one where it basically isn't taking enough risk when it starts to spread its cities, demanding instead that it have merged units to defend the settler. (Debateable whether this is really bad or not. It certainly slows their growth a lot but it also doesn't subject them to as much risk when getting their settlers out there.)

In other ways, however, I wonder how it has shown to be 'flawed'.

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The inability to deal with super units with multiple viceroys. I don't remember which type of Size matter/ Size uncut, but those super units rek everything when they get "Quality Up"

Septentrion said:

The inability to deal with super units with multiple viceroys. I don't remember which type of Size matter/ Size uncut, but those super units rek everything when they get "Quality Up"

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There are checks and balances to all approaches but it's true there is some work to get the AI to see what they are up against and respond correctly.

Example: You may have a massively merged unit, very powerful. But a Hero with a number of Bottleneck promos can eat those thousands of men for breakfast. And that Hero can be destroyed by a merged unit with Swarm promos. And the Merged Unit with promos can be destroyed by a Merged Unit with anti-combat class or combat promotions so that it gets the normal edge against its equally merged foe.

This system of checks and balances may be tough for the AI right now but in a version or two it will get better.

The thing is, at first, a player is usually just as lost as the AI as to how to best get SM to work for them and the rudimentary AI programming can often catch the player off guard, particularly when it comes in to invade the player who is used to warfare according to the non-SM system and is thus hopelessly outgunned at trying to defend his cities against the monstrous invasion forces coming in.

Thunderbrd said:

There are checks and balances to all approaches but it's true there is some work to get the AI to see what they are up against and respond correctly.

Example: You may have a massively merged unit, very powerful. But a Hero with a number of Bottleneck promos can eat those thousands of men for breakfast. And that Hero can be destroyed by a merged unit with Swarm promos. And the Merged Unit with promos can be destroyed by a Merged Unit with anti-combat class or combat promotions so that it gets the normal edge against its equally merged foe.

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It's not like these God units will load up on Bottlenecks and Stings. I get that it's balance in theory with Man-killing God units dying to anti-God God units dying to hero Units dying to Man-killing God Units, but that's not how it ends up with this AI.

Thunderbrd said:

This system of checks and balances may be tough for the AI right now but in a version or two it will get better.

Click to expand...

So, five years until the AI stops running around helpless?

Thunderbrd said:

The thing is, at first, a player is usually just as lost as the AI as to how to best get SM to work for them and the rudimentary AI programming can often catch the player off guard, particularly when it comes in to invade the player who is used to warfare according to the non-SM system and is thus hopelessly outgunned at trying to defend his cities against the monstrous invasion forces coming in.

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So, your example of an ideal application of this mechanism is a player who's completely ignorant of the mechanism having his 60 hour civilization destroyed by forces he doesn't understand?

It's not like these God units will load up on Bottlenecks and Stings

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Actually, there is a good chance they do. Many heroes and hunters you'll see take bottlenecks and the chance for swarm promos is higher the higher the units are merged. You might not see that as often until later in the game.

So, five years until the AI stops running around helpless?

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If YOU don't find them challenging, then by all means wait until development catches up. But there's lots of combat modifications still to come and all should be taken into account with one major AI restructuring. This version has some planned (mostly for law, stealth and crime units) and there is more planned for the next for more general land warfare units.

In the meantime, I don't think we can say the AI is all that great with ANY options or not options and what you as a player are less familiar with is likely to be giving a litle edge to the AI. If you've developed further familiarity with SM, the AI may not be able to live up to that but if you haven't yet fully figured out how to exploit it in full, the AI's probably going to hand you your ass. It's managed to find some ways to exploit (based on the numbers alone) that I didn't suspect myself already.

So, your example of an ideal application of this mechanism is a player who's completely ignorant of the mechanism having his 60 hour civilization destroyed by forces he doesn't understand?

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Enjoyment of a game often comes in discovery. If it's the AI teaching you what it is you have to discover, that's usually a good thing.