Barbarians & Animals

Do you USUALLY play FFh with Raging Barbarians selected?

  • Yes

    Votes: 57 49.1%

  • No

    Votes: 59 50.9%
  • Total voters
    116
A lot of interesting discussion about barbs and animals here. Thanks, guys. :)

Today I had one of those unusual occurrences. I had a hostile reaction at a goodie hut when I landed on it with my scout.

To be honest, I had a captured worker in tow, but you wouldn't think a worker/scout combo would provoke a hostile reaction, would you?

I just won another game playing as Hippus with raging barbs. I really think the Raider unit is tremendous against barbs with all those movement points. As I said before, it is not so difficult protecting your cities against the barbs, but it IS difficult protecting your improvements especially resources as the barbs who can pillage seem to prefer that to attacking the cities.

Anyway, I won a conquest victory in about the year 650 (this always produces an amazing score!) as the barbs took out the other 10 and I was the last civ standing. Just in time too as the chariots and worg riders were showing up in force.
 
Sarisin said:
Today I had one of those unusual occurrences. I had a hostile reaction at a goodie hut when I landed on it with my scout.

To be honest, I had a captured worker in tow, but you wouldn't think a worker/scout combo would provoke a hostile reaction, would you?
Click to expand...


Did you have them grouped? If so perhaps the computer only recognizes one of the units as popping the hut and it used the worker. Scouts usually don't get a hostile reaction (or perhaps it could be based on the level you are playing at).
 
Giolla Phadraig said:
Did you have them grouped? If so perhaps the computer only recognizes one of the units as popping the hut and it used the worker. Scouts usually don't get a hostile reaction (or perhaps it could be based on the level you are playing at).
Click to expand...

Yes, they were grouped as I was trying to provide some protective escort (right - a Scout) for the worker back to my city.

I wonder if I would have gotten the hostile reaction if I only used the worker for the goodie hut.

At any rate, you are screwed on these hostile reactions as you already had your turn and the 3 spearmen take care of business. :(
 
barbs should always head for an empty city vs attacking your units
 
not necessarily.. there should be some things that outrank it due to proximity. Otherwise you could just empty a city to get the barbs attention then refill it once they get close, then do that with another city far away and thus keep the barbs busy and not attacking you.
 
Is it just me or what?

Four out of my last five games I have had a visit paid to me by Orthus. Now, I really don't mind his appearance as I have a sure-fire way of killing him and getting his axe. However, it is his entourage of 30 or so goblins and spearmen that are annoying me. :mad:

In two of the encounters, I know Orthus and his minions bypassed other civs to head right for me. One was just north of me, and Orthus appeared right next to that civ. In the other, two civs were on either side of Orthus while I was quite a distance south.

Would the AI possibly cheat and go after the human player while ignoring other AI civs?

Nah, of course not. :mischief:

To be fair, I have seen Orthus go after AI civs and destroy them or lose his ax to one of them, but lately he seems to come for me always...
 
Sarisin said:
In two of the encounters, I know Orthus and his minions bypassed other civs to head right for me. One was just north of me, and Orthus appeared right next to that civ. In the other, two civs were on either side of Orthus while I was quite a distance south.

Would the AI possibly cheat and go after the human player while ignoring other AI civs?

Nah, of course not. :mischief:
Click to expand...
I saw him do this against an AI civ, so it's not just humans. He wiped one out, I think that was the closest. Then he could go south, south east, east or north east. North east being the longest possible way to get to another civ. That's the route he took. I believe this has something to do with how the units are created, barbarians that are created like barbarians normally are will just go around like normal ones but if they are created using python they will pick a civ or city and then go there, unless something is directly in the way.

A long time ago in vanilla I made most barbarians spawn using python and EVERYONE went for the same city (no civ had more than one). The only time they attacked something else was when it was in their way. And no, they did not all go for me... I think they wiped out 10 civs before I quit realising nothing could ever stop them.
 
snarko said:
I saw him do this against an AI civ, so it's not just humans. He wiped one out, I think that was the closest. Then he could go south, south east, east or north east. North east being the longest possible way to get to another civ. That's the route he took. I believe this has something to do with how the units are created, barbarians that are created like barbarians normally are will just go around like normal ones but if they are created using python they will pick a civ or city and then go there, unless something is directly in the way.

A long time ago in vanilla I made most barbarians spawn using python and EVERYONE went for the same city (no civ had more than one). The only time they attacked something else was when it was in their way. And no, they did not all go for me... I think they wiped out 10 civs before I quit realising nothing could ever stop them.
Click to expand...

In general the AI does not work at a unit level, but at a Civ level. So it decides what it wants to focus on and goes after it. Much like a player wouldn't randomly attack whatever city is nearby with each unit the AI picks a target and goes for it.
 
I usually do because I love getting the subdue animal promotion and allowing my cities to grow like crazy through the use of the carnival and its cages

raging barbarians gives more animals and low level guys early on so that I can take advantage of it before they're all replaced by higher level units

one bad thing is that in a couple of games Ive had as many as 2 AI civs destroyed by barbs
 
soibean,

As you said, it can be a bad thing if AI civs get destroyed by the raging barbs because then you know you will get them all after you.

However, I have had a few Conquest victories with outrageous scores because I was the last civ standing in a raging barb game. You really tend to focus more on defense rather than expanding in these games. I enjoy the strategy involved in protecting your city (you can usually only get one for a long time) and especially its improvements.

Of course, when you throw an AI civ in the mix with the BAR trait, things change....
 
I tried a game with no other civs in it (just me against the barbarians) and it took me nearly 800 years to get my second city, and 1000 years just to secure a valley area for myself (blocked off entrances into decent sized area so i could finally make improvements).

Raging barbs on a standard highlands map on deity as a time victory is a good challenge lol.. I never beat it though as it was a marathon game and I had no idea how much longer it would be, but I had the barbarians finally under control (won a personal victory).
 
Sureshot said:
I tried a game with no other civs in it (just me against the barbarians) and it took me nearly 800 years to get my second city, and 1000 years just to secure a valley area for myself (blocked off entrances into decent sized area so i could finally make improvements).

Raging barbs on a standard highlands map on deity as a time victory is a good challenge lol.. I never beat it though as it was a marathon game and I had no idea how much longer it would be, but I had the barbarians finally under control (won a personal victory).
Click to expand...

That's the thing that is so much fun about this game and especially the mod. My hat is off to you for playing at deity mode though. Amazing!

I think getting the second city and keeping your improvements is a major goal whenever playing with raging barbs. The attacks of barbs with many movements like chariots, worg riders, and Royal Guard are a real challenge.

I like the highlands map too with those mountain peaks offering some protection and choke points.
 
I have already mentioned that I think the mounted barbs (except for the worg riders) are pretty bizarre - chariots, mercenaries, and Royal Guard. But, hell, it is a fantasy game, so what? :mischief:

However, today I had the least likely barbarian unit appear in numbers. What would you think the least likely unit might be?

How about a plethora of barbarian Inquisitors. hahahaha

Yep, they are coming in numbers. Fortunately, they are easily dispatched with greater werewolves and I am still trying to find out what inquisition barbs might be looking to perform. ;)

How do these barb units appear? Randomly, set???

You would think if there would be a Tier 4 barb unit it might be something like a Berserker. Oops, better be careful, or they might show up.:)
 
Sarisin said:
I have already mentioned that I think the mounted barbs (except for the worg riders) are pretty bizarre - chariots, mercenaries, and Royal Guard. But, hell, it is a fantasy game, so what? :mischief:

However, today I had the least likely barbarian unit appear in numbers. What would you think the least likely unit might be?

How about a plethora of barbarian Inquisitors. hahahaha

Yep, they are coming in numbers. Fortunately, they are easily dispatched with greater werewolves and I am still trying to find out what inquisition barbs might be looking to perform. ;)

How do these barb units appear? Randomly, set???

You would think if there would be a Tier 4 barb unit it might be something like a Berserker. Oops, better be careful, or they might show up.:)
Click to expand...

The spawn engine will "cheat" and create any unit the barbarians have the requirements for. The barbarians do a decent job of fulfilling tech requirements, but the resource requirements are more difficult for the barbarians. So they tend toward units that dont have resource requirements (like mercenaries, royal guard, inquisitors, etc).
 
Firstly, let me say that I agree with you about building secondary and terciary scouts, Hian. You make an excellent point there.

I play Prince difficulty with raging barbs and aggressive AI both on. This is a really awesome way to play, and I believe that it should be the default playstyle (just the raging barbs and A-AI, not the Prince part), with a raging barbs+ option and an agressive AI+ option, too.

On a related note, would it be possible to make it so that barbs can spawn in a BAR trait empire's LOS, too? I know that any tile seen by any Civ can't spawn barbs, but you'd think that a Civ with the BAR trait might not have this effect on barbs. Seems like it would be pretty fun, as you wouldn't be able to use the Cland of Embers or the Doviello as a buffer anymore.
 
Nikis-Knight said:
how can they build inquisitors without religion??
Click to expand...

If you play a huge map with raging barbs AI civs will be gradually wiped out (except for those with the BAR trait).

Then, you will see barb cities sprout up like weeds all over the map. The AI cheats in this regard as most of the time barb cities come complete with roads, improvements, etc. You see barb workers occasionally, but not that often - in the cities, but never building the connecting roads which allow units like barb chariots to cover a lot of ground quickly. As a strategy, I always go out and destroy any barb-built roads near my cities as the mounted barb units can get pretty far into your civ otherwise. Better to have them stopped short, or just inside your borders.

Anyway, these barb cities can become rather large with lots of improvements, buildings, even wonders - the one with the Red Dragon is a good example. I took that city, got Dragon's Horde, the Titan Wonder, and a really funny barb wonder - the Great Library. Glad to see the raging boys reading books. :)

The cities almost always have some form of religion, although I have never seen one with a holy city.

I just think the barb units should be a bit more realistic, if possible, but, again, this is a fantasy game, so....
 
snarko said:
A long time ago in vanilla I made most barbarians spawn using python and EVERYONE went for the same city (no civ had more than one). The only time they attacked something else was when it was in their way. And no, they did not all go for me... I think they wiped out 10 civs before I quit realising nothing could ever stop them.
Click to expand...
Ooh! That sounds like fun =)

I love raging barbarians - how they make you scrape and claw your way forward in the game.

I know the AI for certain aspects of the game are being tweaked. I'm looking forward to a smarter Orthus. It would be cool if he always brought troops with him (I've only seen him alone so far). Perhaps he could also 'recruit' any barb units that come within sight of him as he rampages.

The occasional rampage by Acheron would be pretty sweet, too. He could grab all his minions from his home city and head out to destroy anything he pleases. And, if someone happens to sack his city while he is out, he'll decide that a heaping plate of revenge is in order . . . :D
I believe I've read something about plans to make this dragon more mobile - I certainly look forward to it.

Civ III would have the occasional barbarian rampage, where any barb camps would automatically be populated with a huge stack of horsemen. My assumption is that Civ IV doesn't do this - does anyone know for sure? It would be a nice random event to have some barb city spawn a bunch of units bent on rampage (the idea being some ambitious warlord has just gotten to the top of the heap and decides his destiny is at hand).

- Niilo
 
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