RBW4 - It's a scary world out there

Right. My bad.

T1 - Nothing

T2 - Guangzhou is now connected to the capital; Switch production from a warrior to a more useful axeman.

T3 - Nothing

T4 - GK asks for open borders and I hesitate, as the AI could easily walk to our north and settle there (even though GK is quite a distance away). To play safe, I decline, but the next player has the option of opening them.

T5 - Our warrior defeats a barb archer while defending. Our settler is complete and begins the trek to discover (hopefully) a fishing resource.

T6 - I allow Guangzhou to work the copper in order to improve production.

T7 - With a lack of anything to build, Shanghai begins work on barracks.

T8 - Shanghai is now connected to the capital, but I continue to build barracks. Another barb archer is present to the north, which delays our exploration team.

T9 - Pottery in, I decide to go for Fishing before Writing, but that can be changed; Guangzhou's borders expand

T10 - Monty's dreaded border pop occurs. Our worker at Shanghai is displaced from farming and our "flipper peninsula" is blocked off.

A barb archer is sitting outside Guangzhou, and should attack next turn (and be defeated). Beijing just completed an axeman and has begun a granary.

Sorry for the lack of screenshots, there just wasn't anything interesting to show.

PS: Tokyo is now 2% Japanese

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96336/RBW4_BC-1040.CivWarlordsSave
 
Lurker's Comment
I'm following this game with interest and agree with mutineer on no spirit of rules, just rules, but a careful examination of the rules suggest to me that his idea is not legal.

Variant Rules:

* Can never declare war, therefore can never sign DP or PA.
* Military units cannot leave our cultural borders. The only exception to this is when escorting a settler to its designated settle site.
* We cannot attack across our borders. In other words, we cannot attack a city that is adjacent to our borders.
* Must win through domination.

I bolded the relevant rule, this suggests to me that a settler is not even allowed to wander, the city site must be designated. Also as a settler has equal or greater movement(unless the unit has upgrades) to any military unit there will be few possibilities for pillaging, if allowed at all as their job is one of escorting.
 
Rules never sad we can not escort it try oppositons land and pillage or hunt workers/settlers along the way. Nether rules sad that escort can not clean some space for settler to settle! :)

Military units cannot leave our cultural borders. The only exception to this is when escorting a settler to its designated settle site.

I bolded the relevant rule, this suggests to me that a settler is not even allowed to wander, the city site must be designated. Also as a settler has equal or greater movement(unless the unit has upgrades) to any military unit there will be few possibilities for pillaging, if allowed at all as their job is one of escorting.

Correct, the military escort is there to protect the settler, not to use the settler as a means to pillage. He's travelling with the settler and nothing else. Granted, I don't mind the settler getting to the spot and having a quick look around at possible city sites only, but nothing else. For instance, the spot up north we are a little unsure about as we can't see all the coastal tiles, so I don't have a problem with the settler and it's escort taking a quick look to see if there is a better spot than the proposed one. If so than he takes it and if not, he goes back to the proposed site.

If one does not want to have rules not used as intended one have to formulate good set of rules. There no such thin as spirit, only set of rule. Otherwise you limit people imagination, which preventing games form been fun!

When I came up with this game I didn't realize that I had to hire a lawyer to design the variant rules. I had "assumed" that everyone would get the idea, or "spirit" of the game. If something came up we weren't sure about, than we'd discuss it and figure it out. I fully expected players to come up with new and imaginitive ideas, as that's the whole point of variant games. Discussion of interesting and imaginitive ideas is the fun in these games, not looking for ways to abuse the rules.
 
Got it. Settler heading north.

If no sea resources in the far north - what becomes our "designated site"? 'Fraid I've gotten a little confused in the discussion of "diagonals" and "flippers" (this is starting to sound like a pinball game)
 
I'm curious what that archer is goig to do. I'm hoping he heads towards the copper, as that'll save our warrior. Our best defender is the promoted warrior, who is already slightly wounded. We're looking at 3 [them] vs. 3.325 [us].

Do we want to go with Writing next for libraries, or Masonry and try and grab a wonder or two? The wonders would help push our culture, but would take up alot of resources to do it. Speaking of wonders, what about Stonehenge? If anything, I'd like to build it in Shanghai due to its location, but 30 turns is way too long. We'd get beat to it. I'm wondering if its too late for that anyway.

In regards to settlers and their escorts, realize we can "work" the system. For instance, what if we placed an "escort" in these positions?



Place a military unit on the yellow circle prior to the settler getting there. We have a different military unit move with the settler until the settler gets to the forests just north of Guangzhou. The settler than leaves the forest and ends his movement on the yellow circle, where his military escort is waiting for him. He's still being escorted, as he's protected at the end of the turn.

Drama is definitely something we want to prioritize, due to the :culture: slider. I'm thinking we're going to have to run with that up a large part of the game. I'm kind of amazed, especially as close as we are, that we haven't had a religion spread to us yet.

Roster:
  • Methos
  • Kodii - Just Played
  • Bede - Up!
  • 3Amoor - On Deck
  • Sunrise089
  • Mutineer
 
Got it. Settler heading north.

If no sea resources in the far north - what becomes our "designated site"? 'Fraid I've gotten a little confused in the discussion of "diagonals" and "flippers" (this is starting to sound like a pinball game)

The settler and his escort should go to the forested hill at the top of the map first, just to make sure there's no better site.

If there are no coastal resources, I believe this is our best site:



If there are coastal resources, than we need to refigure our site.
 
A militay unit is the only unit which can attack a city, If it wins then it would move ahead of the settler into the city. If the settler moved with it, as in a stack attack, could this be considered as escorting? Probably, attack being the best form of defense. I think mutineer is correct, but if the city is not taken on the same turn as the settler is moving there, ie bombarding or any other sort of waiting/pillaging then I think this would not be escorting as the settler would not be moving to its designated city site.

ps. feel free to ignore anything I say, I was interested in discussing the point of rule for the sake of it, and I am enjoying watching the game unfold.

pps. I also just thought about what would happen if one did attack a city and take it, unless you were able to move all accompanying units onto the city site with the settler there would likely be units left over from where the attack took place. I guess these could be disbanded immediately after attacking the city if they didnt have a move point left(is this possible? I will check.).
 
Thanks for the picture.

I may make an argument for the grass hill regardless of what may be found on the coast to the north. It loses the hammers from the hill but gains a canal and puts all the strongest visible fields in the city borders without culture.
 
A militay unit is the only unit which can attack a city,

Remember that according to the variant, we cannot attack cities, as technically speaking we would have to step outside of our cultural borders to do it. Settler escorts are just that, escorts, therefore they cannot attack a city. Basically, we cannot attack a city, but we can get others to do it for us.
 
Remember that according to the variant, we cannot attack cities.

Rules do not say we can not attack cities. They only say we can not attack cities across the borders.

Methos, Idea of good rules on good variants that rules clear and one does not have to have discussion or constant clarification on rules, as that is not fun.

I am in favor of placing city on Grass hill, if there no any sea resources.
City will not have any ocean ties and leave bouth posible flipper cites open.
 
@Muti: You do have a good point. Part (maybe all) of the problem here is that this game had a discussion thread over at Realms Beyond prior to starting here, and a specific component of that thread was the comparison between this game and the RB29 games. Methos at that time explicitly set down his interpretation of the "no leaving your cultural borders" rule to mean we may NEVER attack anything that isn't inside our borders. This was specifically and intentionally more strict than the RB29 rule that only allows our units to not enter into a tile in enemy lands.
 
Here is the sitcheeation and it is not a pretty one.

Green goo is spreading onto our island, limiting our choices for "flipper" sites and the fish resource is far enough out to sea to be useless to us.

I would settle where the settler stands.



I shall play on once opinions are expressed.
 
I wold settle on Forested hill, where circle is.
We need best cities posible, and nothing make city better then food!
 
We will loose 1 grass tie and 3 coast ties.

I think we can cottage grass tie happily, we do need commerce in our innner cities, and this would be one of innner cities.
 
i did warn you on RB that i would lurk but not quietly, didn't i?
I think we can cottage grass tile happily, we do need commerce in our innner cities, and this would be one of innner cities.

where the settler is, you keep the grassland tile south of the corn in the cross, but it's not worth keeping. you won't be cottaging it, you'll be farming it to get irrigation to the corn i imagine. 6f1c ocean fish >>> 3f0c farm (even 4f0c postbio farm). moving to the blue dot gives up 4 coast and one no commerce grassland for 1 coast, 3 ocean, and 1 ocean+fish.

if you do farm that grassland, and build a lighthouse, the differences if my math is right are:
blue dot gets 14 food 6 commerce that where-settler-is-now can't reach
settler-is-now gets 11 food 8 commerce that blue dot can't reach.
so i like blue dot. if you are going to cottage that grassland, and not try to irrigate the corn, that changes things.

that grass west of the corn that muti's talking about, that one you can and should cottage IMO. and you can cottage the plains too ;).
 
Took a look at the borders and noted that Hannibal has a Great Wall



and that the Green Goo is spreading like kudzu onto the peninsula



The settler is delayed leaving the station because the barb archer wins the first battle and I wait for him to suicide against the arriving axe before heading north.

And just before mvoing the axe to check out the sea in the north get this hear from the outlands that the Oracle has been built.

When Fishing comes in I choose Writing over Iron (libraries for culture) and start a workboat at Guangzhou, leaving the granary in queue. Beijing trains out a couple of workers so now we have at least one worker per town, then finishes its barracks so we can train some meaningful military.

The new town goes down as discussed and starts on its monument so it can gain access to the foody fields. The worker at Shanghai starts roading towards Beijing as the spread of the Green Goo has blocked any coastal connections to the north for now.

We are still learning our letters when Capac drops by and offers to open the borders.



See no reason to be disagreeable so accept.

Then Tokyo has its first Chinese uprising



And who should appear from the south at Shanghai



Not exactly Santa, but close, though he has no reindeer.

Shanghai then reclaims a cow pasture from Hannibal



Tokyo remains vulnerable to our culture



And here is the 50000 foot view



Most of the forests at Beijing have been preserved as the citizens won't be working those fields anytime soon. The worker at Guangzhou is running in a cottage, there is still a grass forest available to carry water to the north when the time comes, and the ivory still needs camping and connecting. The other worker in the north is running a road to Nanking to get the trade routes up.
 

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