Selling everything. Is it really a good approach?

One of the most important rules for at least slightly advanced civ players is to sell all your unused resources. In early game, an additional 7gpt from a single luxury surplus or 6gpt from 5 units of a strategic resource is always worth it (numbers for epic-speed games). Even slightly lower values are acceptable. AI has enough happiness to support itself anyway so you are not really helping them and when it comes to strategic resources, even if they go to war against you, they will get huge penalty for the lack of proper resources to maintain their troops. A win-win situation.

There is one exception, however. If AI does not have any coal, there is no reason to let them pick an ideology before modern era. I don't know about uranium because I have yet to play a game in which AI builds at least a single nuke. Especially since BNW, my games end earlier either with diplomacy or culture.

I was thinking, though. If I'm able to amass huge amounts of happiness, and I sometimes do, I don't really care for resources as happiness boosters. Their main purpose is to trigger faster growth in my cities. AIs, who always have tons of happiness no matter what, have the same use of luxuries. Is it really worth selling them luxuries for meager 7gpt each if your total gpt is around 150 or more? In my recent games I tend to trade everything off to allied civs but I withhold my luxuries from civilizations that cannot be trusted or are my general rivals.

What is your approach?

Trade is always good as I'm sure that measly 7gpt is buffed by your markets/banks/stock exchanges. I try and trade everything with the exception of uranium as the AI most certainly builds nukes, and I'm sure nukes don't suffer the strategic resource penalty. Trade usually means you'll have decent enough relations with most civs giving you the opportunity to make make your strike when it suits you rather than the other way around.

If possible always trade excess luxs to the AI. It's important to do everything you can to pick up extra gpt and deprive the AI of the the same gpt. Doing so limits their army size, makes their infrastructure cost relatively more, and reduces their ability to bribe CS's. Meanwhile, your abilities to do all of that increases. (However, at higher difficulties the AI has an enormous gpt advantage so yeah...)

In a good game with minimal or no enemies I can trade away 3-4 luxs for a good 20-30gpt. Taken in the long run, that can easily help you achieve whatever CV your pursuing.

Yes you should always sell your resources as much as possible, for gpt or lump cash with lump cash being preferred in most circumstances. You should also be trying to sell the last of a luxury you have if you can get away with the loss of happiness for the trade duration (30 turns std speed). If you can gain more from the sale of any resource vs. keeping it, you should sell it.

The only exception to this would be holding on to a resource that you plan on trading in the immediate future for another resource. For example, it might be better to hold on to a 2nd lux resource if you think you can pick up another lux from an AI within the next 30 turns and you will need the happiness from such a trade.

Makavcio said:

Is it really worth selling them luxuries for meager 7gpt each if your total gpt is around 150 or more?

Click to expand...

I had a similar thought, that the 6-7 gpt I received is less than the 4 happiness that they were getting, i.e. it was a one-sided deal that I was on the unfavorable end of, but I quickly dismissed this for one reason: let's say that this deal increased my value by 10% and the AI's value by 30%; a bad deal for me yes, but if I was making similar deals with 7 different AI's, then they each increased their value by 30%, making each of their values 130%, but I had the 10% bonus 7 times over, making my standing 170%, leaving me ahead of the competition.

And regarding not trading coal to prevent an AI civ from reaching an ideology; you make a good point, but this can be avoided by simply selling excess coal to renaissance era civs only and discontinuing the trade when they hit the industrial age.

Everything gets sold. Im always mortgaging myself to the max buying buildings so its not until Ive bought nuclear plants that finally gold starts to matter less. The impact of buying things like research labs immediately instead of spending 10-15 turns building them is quite significant.

Coal gets sold as well. My typical entry into ideology is to research public schools, electricity, radio. The radio pick comes free from Oxford or the final rat social policy if it lines up. I then tech industrialisation, so by the time I have coal for sale (if i get lucky!), Ive already picked my ideology and I dont really care if I help the AI get to his at that point, Im going to be well ahead anyway. The reason I do this is for the 2nd tier Order Social Policy that lets you build factories in half the time. I line it up so I can get a SP straight at the same time as your two free order picks, or save a great writer or two you can have the 3rd Order policy immediately. Its a pretty busy time tbh - getting the schools up, lining Oxford up to complete when electricity does and then building the factories and possibly building or buying hydro dams. Skyscrapers is always one of my Order picks too. Ill also be looking to start a golden age either naturally or with a GA. Quite often its around the same time the Worlds Fair completes as well. One thing I really really really hate is a DOW as Im going thru this massive transformation from being behind to being massively ahead of the AIs.

The other thing to think about is that youre never really helping the AI when you sell them stuff. They dont often actually need extra happiness thanks to their bonuses so buying a lux from you doesnt do them much good anyway. Horses and iron you might make a case as being useful early on.. I usually dont sell this to warmongers on my borders tbh .. but theres plenty of units to build without these resources anyway.

phillipwyllie said:

Trade is always good as I'm sure that measly 7gpt is buffed by your markets/banks/stock exchanges.

Click to expand...

No, it's not.

Makavcio said:

If AI does not have any coal, there is no reason to let them pick an ideology before modern era. I don't know about uranium because I have yet to play a game in which AI builds at least a single nuke. Especially since BNW, my games end earlier either with diplomacy or culture.

Click to expand...

What does this have to do with ideologies or the modern era? There's the tenet giving science to factories but that's about it as far as I know..?

Money from trade deals is not multiplied as it goes to your global account, not a city.

Mahasona said:

What does this have to do with ideologies or the modern era? There's the tenet giving science to factories but that's about it as far as I know..?

Money from trade deals is not multiplied as it goes to your global account, not a city.

Click to expand...

Because the way to get an ideology an era earlier is to build three factories after Industrialization and coal is rarer now.

Not all AI will build factories with them, let alone three (they seem to prefer ironclads) But some do if they have 3 coal.

That is very true - I tend to research Industrialisation as my first Industrial tech, freak out trying to find a source of coal, often bribing a city state if I don't have any, and switch as many of my cities over to factory production as I can manage, buying them with gold if the city doesn't make many hammers.

I often see AIs with no Ideology much later into the game than that. Perhaps the criterion for an Ideology should be relaxed somewhat or at least made easier for an AI to do? I play at Emperor and higher exclusively and I've never gotten fewer than two free policies for adopting an Ideology.

A spare resource locked into your storage is doing nothing.

A penny is also money as Mr Scrooge would have said.

Makavcio said:

One of the most important rules for at least slightly advanced civ players is to sell all your unused resources. In early game, an additional 7gpt from a single luxury surplus or 6gpt from 5 units of a strategic resource is always worth it (numbers for epic-speed games). Even slightly lower values are acceptable. AI has enough happiness to support itself anyway so you are not really helping them and when it comes to strategic resources, even if they go to war against you, they will get huge penalty for the lack of proper resources to maintain their troops. A win-win situation.

There is one exception, however. If AI does not have any coal, there is no reason to let them pick an ideology before modern era. I don't know about uranium because I have yet to play a game in which AI builds at least a single nuke. Especially since BNW, my games end earlier either with diplomacy or culture.

I was thinking, though. If I'm able to amass huge amounts of happiness, and I sometimes do, I don't really care for resources as happiness boosters. Their main purpose is to trigger faster growth in my cities. AIs, who always have tons of happiness no matter what, have the same use of luxuries. Is it really worth selling them luxuries for meager 7gpt each if your total gpt is around 150 or more? In my recent games I tend to trade everything off to allied civs but I withhold my luxuries from civilizations that cannot be trusted or are my general rivals.

What is your approach?

Click to expand...

Although I was initially skeptical, I now sell not only all the resources I don't need, but also embassy and open borders. Especially to friendly civs for cash. On standard I get 50 coin cash for open border, and I get that every 30 turns. With 20 AI
s it adds up nicely. It seems to make a difference when I use the cash in buying those science buildings to get ahead in science on deity level. The only exception is if I can see that an AI is planning to attack me, and I don't want them to attack. One other interesting aspect of this is that I can sell open borders for 50 cash, then if I need open borders from the AI, I can pay them 1 GPT. Nice little profit. However, I don't need open borders from the AIs as often as I thought I did (typically my scout only makes one pass through and AI's territory) Same thing on embassy, but that only happens once in the game. I take cash for embassy, then buy embassy for coin per turn later when I get a little more cash. I also learned that I only need embassy when a civ is friendly. It is needed for open borders, trading, or spying, and in a lot of cases I don't need to buy it for quite a while.

No reason not to trade two units of coal if you can get an offer on them, though?

DemonMaster said:

A spare resource locked into your storage is doing nothing.

A penny is also money as Mr Scrooge would have said.

Click to expand...

Scrooge is basically the perfect example of an early industrial era capitalist. His attire already indicates this - monocle, top hat, walking stick - similarity with merciless exploiters of the 18th century.
He fights his competition with cruelty and ruthlessness and uses the same methods to make his underpaid employees work even harder and longer, which profit lands almost entirely in his pocket. Throwning atop the hill, his money vault as a sign of endless wealth shows his contempt for all the poor people, where his money is just stored without purpose. Despite being rich enough, he wouldn't even dream of sharing his wealth even with his closest family.

I wouldn't take advice from such a through and through evil person.

Quineloe said:

Scrooge is basically the perfect example of an early industrial era capitalist. His attire already indicates this - monocle, top hat, walking stick - similarity with merciless exploiters of the 18th century.
He fights his competition with cruelty and ruthlessness and uses the same methods to make his underpaid employees work even harder and longer, which profit lands almost entirely in his pocket. Throwning atop the hill, his money vault as a sign of endless wealth shows his contempt for all the poor people, where his money is just stored without purpose. Despite being rich enough, he wouldn't even dream of sharing his wealth even with his closest family.

I wouldn't take advice from such a through and through evil person.

Click to expand...

Since Civilization is a form of RPG, you play a role. So, those games when I decide to play a Civilization with an ultra-capitalistic style (i.e. freedom) then I gladly take Mr. Scrooge advice