Anyone know if Civ5 has been pirated yet?

This discussion about piracy, and the post that slowpoke linked are somewhat one-sided. Let me expand it a bit.

Lets have to look at "classic ship piracy" first. A commodity X is being shipped from harbor Y to harbor Z on a vessel belonging to a certain company. Lets say the value of the ship is 100$ and the value of commodities being shipped is 500$. The cargo is stolen and the ship is scruttled.

Or at least this is what the damaged company (owner) tells us. The reality is that the only fact we know for certain is that the ship's market value is 100$. The actual value of the cargo is questionable.

Lets look at this act of piracy from a different angle. The company in question acquires the stated goods from a slave workforce, outright stealing from indigenous people or pays very little for its production. Lets say the costs for getting those goods costs 50$ either in slave upkeep, mercenary costs or very low wages. It's market value in Europe is 500$, that's true, but the company already perfomed a theft (possibly a very legal theft, at least as far as European Courts are concerned). If those pirates are actually rebel former slaves, indigenous people or workers, then they are actually not really stealing, but rather getting a fraction of their money back. It is not unheard of that pirates shared their spoils with the wider population. In a state of war, piracy was encouraged even by governments. But, European Courts and the company itself see it as an illegal act of theft.

Obviously, pirates might simply be very greedy individuals that accumulate more and more goods, resell it at european market prices and get very rich in the process. Oh wait, now they are acting exactly like the company that was shipping the goods in the first place! Except they haven't registered with the governement. Tax evasion!

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When discussing software piracy its very important to understand that laws, companies and stockholders are a part of a system in which methods of stealing, abuse and exploitation are mutually agreed upon. Piracy is illegal not because its ammoral or wrong, but because its methods are not a part of the agreed upon system. "You're not playing by our rules!" is the issue here, not the acts themselves.

Lets explore this a bit further. Listed market price for Civilization is 50€. Estimated sales are 3 million. That's $150 million in revenues.
Now lets say a hundred people worked on CIV5 (Firaxis, 2k, Valve included) for a full year and that the average working hour is worth $30.

100 people X $30 X 340 days X 8 hours equals $8.160.000.
Lets add extra 50% for non-workforce expenses, that brings it to $12.2 million.
And also lets say these good people also want to live off this money for an extra year, which they deserve for working so hard for a year so that brings it up to $20 million.

Revenues $150 million, expenses $20 million. Where did the $130 million go?

I can't possibly know these things exactly, so I'm not saying that only a 100 people worked on it, nor that it took just a year, nor that the average salary is 30$ per hour etc.

But I'm pretty sure that's how this stuff works from companies that published their expenses and profits: Avatar costed $450 million in production, earns $2 billion in profits. Where did the $1.55 billion go? Charity? Aid? Healthcare? Perhaps.

Nobody questions how high the profits go, as long as they are a part of the system (i.e. we agreed this is the way you can earn ridiculous amounts of money, so its okay).

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I have to go soon so I'll present one more issue. Quality of the product. Not the subjective quality, but the factual quality of the product. So, not "Ahh, Miele is such a solid washing machine" but "alloys and electronics used in making this machine are high-quality manufacturing".

I'll use the example of music, because that's a very vocal industry right now and I know much about it. Lets compare 1960s and 2000s in terms of factual quality.

To be a good, known and respected musician in 1960s you:
- had to be very skilled in singing or playing your instrument
- needed to know how to read a musical score
- needed to produce an unique melody and lyrics

Compared to 2000s when to be respected musician:
- have to have good looks
- no need to be particularily skilled in singing or playing your instrument
- don't need to know anything about classical music and scores
- can just copy other people's lyrics or music

If you don't believe me, just compare the singing of Freddie Mercury with that of Bono, or Elvis with Backstreet boys. ROFLMAO!*
*not based on personal preference, but pure raw skill.

However, EMI, Universal Music and others still expect of us to pay the same (or higher) price for their products, which are pretty much garbage.

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In conclusion, all the risk is on the consumers. We pay for the product, we quality-test the product and we have to live with it if we were wrong. Manufacturers and distributors get all the profit and none of the risks. Avatar and Sex in The City II tickets cost the same. Yet it's rather obvious that the latter is inferior in every aspect, even to a hardcore series fan (my friend's wife confirmed this).
 
So I dug out the old serial number of WindowsBlinds from ten years previously, tried an upgrade - I couldnt.
Heck, even when i changed the whole PC not so long ago -- i went right back in (after re-installing Impulse as usual) and lo&behold everything i own through valid licensing showed up neatly right where they should.
Proceeded with re-dowloading process.
As quick as you can say bandwidth limits, i was up & running with GC2/DA+TA (continuing work of X-Worlds & CoSH mods) and re-installed all DesktopX progs + other stuff.
Flawless.
Money - well invested.

And, i'll be pleased to renew my license next spring for DesktopX even if i do not use it that often. Stardock really deserves my cash.

**Back to Topic**
 
Revenues $150 million, expenses $20 million. Where did the $130 million go?

If i may.
I'm no M$-Gates or some Wallstreet champion freak but i've got me some University degree in Finance ever since the mid 80's, worked through the usual gauntlet of accounting tasks, marketing, sales & what else.
And, i gotta tell you.

Markup fees, distribution ratios, shareholders are just three of the many aspects of industrial Capitalism.
When it comes to investing in the development phase of anything, the money pool is factored as an expense not as predictable (hopefully, supplemental) profits.
Subsidized GM & Banks by US government taxes included or not, risk doesn't always equal luck in the cut-throat realm of modern Capitalista.

Even if the above may feel like a manifesto for the rich-vs-poor argumentative to anyone reading this.

Piracy on the other hand is just part of a much bigger concept - namely the puzzling humanity urge to survive.
Law takes care of thieves even if our world isn't perfect.
As always.
 
Think of it this way:

New game released. Pirates crack it in days. They call quits. Game is discovered to come with glaring balance issues.

Those who pirated will not enjoy the benefits of developer support.

Patches generally get cracked as well.
 
@Bibor - well done, I'm impressed!

Law takes care of thieves even if our world isn't perfect.
Exactly. But not in the way you imply.
Like Bibor said - law takes care of thieves (like, protects them from harm) if they can behave accordingly to standards. If they can, then they'll never get caught. Only the misbehaving/unlucky ones get punished, the rest flows smoothly through the cogs of justice system.

Example - a legal scam business. Few years ago I had the displeasure to be targeted by Davenport Lyons. Regardless of what you might think I didn't pirate the game in question (it was some Pinball thing), same as bazillion of other people that received those threatening letters. It took me three nervous days of reading forums and checking with lawyers to finally understand that these guys are just legally extorting money, nothing else.
Now think about it - if a mom of two kids gets such letter - won't she pay the money? How can she know if her children are to guilty or not? She's got too much to risk (house etc), so she will cave in and pay. But but - by paying she has to sign the statement that she did commit the crime and she'll never do it again. By doing this she's gone - a year later another letter comes, with another game, and a higher amount to pay. And it goes on and on.
Now TopWare Interactive disgusts me and I'll never ever buy any of their shabby products - make a game for a $5, then threat to sue other people for $500 settlement - everyone's happy right?

I know it's easy to say ":shrug: just don't pay" but trust me - these letters are very well made, and my initial thought was to pay because it's all so lawyery and serious - the company is legit and everything.

All of the above is completely legal. Why? Because the guys are proceeding accordingly to blind regulations and also pay off the important people.

Now - weed is illegal not because it's a drug. It's because it's not taxed and if it would be then cigarette and booze companies would have huge losses - they will never allow that, so we keep being told how devastating a drug weed is (for more real facts about how powerful cigarette companies are check this awesome movie called The Insider)
 
the game was available by the end of the week it was released. Steam is a complete fail in that regard.
I thought that one of the main reasons firaxis went with steam was for anti-piracy? so i had to go through all that steam **** for nothing?
 
In theory, market prices should always reflect costs of materials + worker wages + profit, while the actual market price must be competent compared to market prices of similar products.

In reality, market prices include a disgusting amount of added costs for shady manager contracts, huge publisher percentages, credit card percentages, and a gazillion other leechers that try to feed both on the actual manufacturer (in this case Firaxis) and the consumer (in this case me).

So between the 50€ I pay for the product and the actual sum Firaxis gets for making this product, probably around 40€ gets lost in the process.

THAT is what's killing the market and manufacturers more than piracy could ever hope to accomplish. And it should be illegal, just like piracy is.

Big companies like EMI or Universal will never give up on their money. Because in themselves, they are not able to produce anything. Want to have your song on the MTV? Okay, give up 50% of your author rights, pay for super-expensive make up and video clips, sign this contract that will bind you to us for the next 99 years and you won't be able as much as make a peep without our consent. Once your one or two years of popularity are gone, we will dump you to the big pile of "has beens" and continue leeching on your past accomplishments, while we buy up new dumb musicians to repeat the proccess.
 
I thought that one of the main reasons firaxis went with steam was for anti-piracy? so i had to go through all that steam **** for nothing?

No, DRM is only one part of Steam, Civ5 uses Steamworks for its multiplayer hosting, autopatching, community features, etc etc.

In theory, market prices should always reflect costs of materials + worker wages + profit, while the actual market price must be competent compared to market prices of similar products.

In reality, market prices include a disgusting amount of added costs for shady manager contracts, huge publisher percentages, credit card percentages, and a gazillion other leechers that try to feed both on the actual manufacturer (in this case Firaxis) and the consumer (in this case me).

So between the 50€ I pay for the product and the actual sum Firaxis gets for making this product, probably around 40€ gets lost in the process.

THAT is what's killing the market and manufacturers more than piracy could ever hope to accomplish. And it should be illegal, just like piracy is.
Pretty much, retailers take a huge chunk out of the price, and sometimes as little as less than $5 actually goes to the developer. If more of the const went to the developer then I wouldn't mind it so much (it does take a lot of money to make games and it has to come from selling them). Digital retailers like Steam take a smaller cut than brick and mortar stores.
 
While I've changed my mind on drm, I still very much hate pirating. The thing I really hate about pirating is it's not just the big companies that get hit Bibor, it's the little ones. E.g. World of Goo is an independent made game and it's piracy rate is over 90%. Because of this, it makes less money, and the creators have less of a budget for it's next game, and as a result the little guy gets squashed.

I myself am starting to make my own video games, which is probably why I hate pirating so much. The fact that it's getting worse every year means when I do finally start making large games meant to support myself, I may not have a choice to make my own games, but will be forced to work either work for a big company that makes watered down casual games, or forced to get a non-video game full time job and release a game like once every 5-7 years.
 
After doing a torrent search, I see that Civ V has been pirated, but none of the patches from 1.0.062 onwards have been released. It seems like the pirates have lost interest in Civ V and turned their efforts to newer releases.

That's why a lot of people ask for mods that are still compatible with 1.0.020 or they complain that mods don't work...or the classic..."I just don't want to update my game"!

Always makes me smile!:)
 
That's why a lot of people ask for mods that are still compatible with 1.0.020 or they complain that mods don't work...or the classic..."I just don't want to update my game"!

Always makes me smile!:)
I've also heard claims like "My Steam is broken and won't patch"... :rolleyes:
 
That's why a lot of people ask for mods that are still compatible with 1.0.020 or they complain that mods don't work...or the classic..."I just don't want to update my game"!

And is that so far fetched, really? I have no idea how big the last patch was, but it took me a wooping 6 hours to download from steam! And it was useless to just cancel the download, go offline and try relaunching the game, because it would just not boot without the patch. So I had to choice but connecting to steam and let it fully downoad the patch before I could play. Result? No civ that day, just wait for tomorrow! So I can understand why (legit) people would not want to download a patch..
 
Patches generally get cracked as well.

Keyword 'generally'. The way I see it, those balance fixes will come out for "free" (air quotes, because the patches are free) is if a "Game of the Year" edition comes out that contains DLC and/or Expansions.
 
I thought that one of the main reasons firaxis went with steam was for anti-piracy? so i had to go through all that steam **** for nothing?
Let's suppose you are bored with Civ V and want to sell it, say, for $15. Can you?
 
Suppose you are renting a movie from Netflix and you get bored with that movie, can you sell it to someone else?
 
Games purchased on Steam are basically on "permanent lease" where permanent ends with Valve deciding to terminate the contract.

Furthermore (taken from Steam Subscriber agreement):

2. In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety or may terminate or cancel only a portion of the Subscription (e.g., access to the software via Steam) and Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase.

So there you have it. "Thanks for the very real money, but we don't bear any actual responsibility for the availability of the product we just sold you". That's theft right there.

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We really need to add this line:

The customer may, but is not obligated to pay for services provided by Steam.

Funny, that's exactly what piracy adds to the equasion. Oh wait-
 
That's technically true with every video game these days.
 
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