City States Update

So, after today's videos we know that Brave New World has the following returning City States:

Geneva
Monaco
Wittenberg
Jerusalem
Prague
Belgrade
La Venta
Zanzibar
Cahokia
Antwerp
Brussels
Cape Town
Lhasa
Milan
Ragusa
Hong Kong
Yerevan
Sydney
Hanoi
Sidon
Quebec City
Kuala Lumpur
Vatican City
Singapore
Bucharest
Samarkand
Kathmandu
Valletta
Kyzyl
Genoa
Tyre
Colombo

Someone has also suggested that Bucharest has been seen in Brave New World, but I have yet to see them, so any hint on where they were visible would be appreciated. - Bucharest has been spotted mentioned in reference to an artifact.

As well as the following new city states:

Sofia - Light Green, Militaristic - New Combination
Mbanza-Kongo - Cyan, Militaristic - New Combination
Riga - Cyan, Maritime - Almost certainly replacing Venice
Ur - Light Purple, Maritime - New Combination
Panama City - Light Yellow, Maritime - Replacing Rio de Janeiro
Kabul - Green, Cultured - New Combination
Bratislava - White, Cultured - Replacing Warsaw
Kyzyl - Middle Cyan, Cultured - New Combination
Buenos Aires - Light Purple, Cultured - New Combination
Samarkand - Middle Blue, Mercantile - New Combination
Kiev - Middle Blue, Cultured - New Combination
Ormus - Unknown

...and Kathmandu has been changed to religious, but keeps it's colours.

What is interesting is the new additions that are seemingly just adding new city states that aren't replacements for the most part. There are 2 new Militaristic, 2 new Cultured, a new Maritime. At a guess, this suggests they are adding two to the initial 3 categories, which would give us a composition of:

With the new information and Kathmandu switching to religious, it seems that they are trying to simply beef up the numbers for each type. At a guess now we'll have:

Militaristic: 8
Cultured: 12
Maritime: 12
Mercantile: 12
Religious: 8

Which would be 52 city states all together. With 10 new additions and 5 replacements (replacements for Venice, Jakarta, Warsaw, Rio and Lisbon). , this would mean we'd have 16 new City States out of the total 48, or 31%. We can get a good guide for if this guess is correct based on the city states we've seen by checking the fraction that are new out of what we've seen. We have now seen 4 games, with the following fractions:

Game 1: 3 of 5 new
Game 2: 4 of 12 new
Game 3: 1 of 11 new
Game 4: 1 of 9 new

That gives a total of 9 of 37 being new from what we've seen so far, or 24%, this matches well with what we'd expect.

New information seems to suggest that there are more new Mercantile City states as well as even more cultured ones. I guess it's worth waiting to see them all before figuring out the exact composition then.

As things stand this means that we'd expect to see the following in terms of new city states:

1 new Maritime city state that is purple (purple as opposed to middle purple or light purple) - Lisbon replacement
1 new Maritime city state that is grey - Jakarta replacement
1 new Mercantile city state that is peach - Marrakesh replacement

As well as:

1 new Maritime city state with a new colour-type combination
1 new Mercantile city state with a new colour-type combination
1 new Religious city state with a new colour-type combination

As we are still getting new cultured city states (in this case Kiev), I would expect one of the unsighted cultured city states to be switched to religious (like our good friend Kathmandu).

At which time we'd have seen all the new city states. If this is the case then we'd expect that Venice would be one of the two remaining Civs. This is based on the city state replacement analysis which previously showed that in all cases where a city state had taken a known colour-type combination it was a replacement. This has held so far throughout Civ V's production cycle and is still consistent with what we've seen with Brave New World. Riga, having taken Venice's colour-type combination, is as such almost certainly a replacement for Venice. This was previously attributed however as a replacement for Ragusa due to mixing up the two different Cyans in the game (middle cyan, which Ragusa is, and cyan, which Venice is), however this error was found and corrected.

With at least one European Civilization remaining and Venice fitting nicely on the alphabetical list, which now stands as:

Assyria
Brazil
Indonesia
Morocco
Poland
Portugal
?
?
Zulus

...and most European and Culturally European Civilizations being ruled out, including:

Belgium
Serbia (and Yugoslavia)
Croatia
Switzerland
Holy Roman Empire
The Franks
Australia
South Africa
Canada
Phoenicia (not really European, but worth pointing out)
Hungary
Bulgaria
Lithuania
Estonia
Latvia
Italy
Florence
Albania
Macedonia
Czechs
Iceland
Finland
Norway
Moldova
Kosovo
Montenegro
Monaco
Georgia (if you'd consider them European)
Armenia (if you'd consider them European)
Argentina
Slovakia
Papal States
Romania
Ukraine
etc.

If as someone suggested, Bucharest has been sighted, then Romania is also out. This pretty much leaves the Slovenia and Venice from what I can tell. Long story short, with Venice seemingly being replaced, it seems extremely likely to almost certain that they've been replaced. That said, maybe this is just that one time that they break their patterns for whatever reason, but even based on what else we know, it seems to be down to them and a short list of not particularly likely candidates.

Slovakia is out due to Bratislava and Florence hasn't been spotted yet AFAIK, so Tuscany is still an option.

You listed Monaco and Zanzibar twice on the top list.

Also, Lisbon is the LIGHTER of the two purples (Kathmandu, Sidon, etc. are darker).

Otherwise, great analysis!

Menzies said:

5 replacements (replacements for Venice, Jakarta, Warsaw, Rio and Lisbon)

Click to expand...

Doesn't Marrakech need a replacement now too?

Also, two Monacos and two Zanzibars in the first list, I would suggest ordering them alphabetically for ease of reading and to prevent mistakes like that.

And I thought Quebec City had been spotted too? And Kuala Lumpur?

Really, you should do what I'm doing and go through the list, crossing off the ones we've seen and noting the rest.

And you included Slovakia on the possible list despite Bratislava being new.

Stonecutter9 said:

You listed Zanzibar twice on the top list.

Also, Lisbon is the LIGHTER of the two purples (Kathmandu, Sidon, etc. are darker).

Otherwise, great analysis!

Click to expand...

Sorry, there's actually 3 purples, I'll edit the original post accordingly.

Quebec City and Kuala Lumpur have been spotted.

Martin23230 said:

Doesn't Marrakech need a replacement now too?

Also, two Monacos and two Zanzibars in the first list, I would suggest ordering them alphabetically for ease of reading and to prevent mistakes like that.

And I thought Quebec City had been spotted too? And Kuala Lumpur?

Really, you should do what I'm doing and go through the list, crossing off the ones we've seen and noting the rest.

And you included Slovakia on the possible list despite Bratislava being new.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the corrections, it's a lot of information to organise properly. The duplicates are due to compiling multiple lists into one.

Inhalaattori said:

Quebec City and Kuala Lumpur have been spotted.

Click to expand...

Yep, Quebec in the extended view of that second game and Kuala Lumpur in the teaser.

New CS is in!!
Indonesia as a Super Mercantile CS..

Menzies said:

Thank you for the corrections, it's a lot of information to organise properly. The duplicates are due to compiling multiple lists into one.

Click to expand...

Happy to help, I like the work you're doing.

Going off your list the CSs that were in G&K that we haven't seen (or will need replacements like Lisbon etc...) are:
Almaty
Bucharest
Budapest
Colombo
Florence
Genoa
Kathmandu
Manila
Mombasa
Singapore
Tyre
Valetta
Vatican City
Zurich

Person who said they saw Bucharest confirmed it was a mistake on their part

Vatican City can be seen at 3:38 of the Rev video, North-West of Panama City and Milan.

Also, at 4.17-ish Singapore is amongst the notification for city-state relationship changes.

Thanks for the list, pretty useful in figuring out stuff from here.

I'll be banking on Venice as the European civ for now.

Damn you Panama City, i wanted Gran Colombia... I wanted to be an oil-powered Bolivarian populist!

I think I found where Bucharest appears in the Rev 3 video - pause it at 3:21 (where he's talking about how you can use artifacts). If you look on the text at the left of the screen you'll see that one of the options is 'Create Bucharest Artifact'.

Tsuchinoko said:

I think I found where Bucharest appears in the Rev 3 video - pause it at 3:21 (where he's talking about how you can use artifacts). If you look on the text at the left of the screen you'll see that one of the options is 'Create Bucharest Artifact'.

Click to expand...

Very good catch! So they are off the list then.



Was green their colour in G&K? Just the check these things...

Doesn't that say, 'Create Brazilian Artifact'?

Edit: My mistake, a second later it goes to Bucharest.

No Menzies, its a split second after that frame. Bucharest confirmed a city state. The last major competitor against Venice out!

I think the colours from the flag turning up on an unrevealed civ already took care of any doubt surrounding Venice.

Great and very helpful analysis.

Am I the only person who doesn't believe that the new luxury is part of Indonesia's UA? The phrasing does suggest that the luxuries won't necessarily be brand new ones, just luxuries which aren't available to other civs in that particular game.