Economics tougher in G&K?

For some reason, I seem to be running deficits in gold far more often than in vanilla. In vanilla, I could rush to Universities and neglect markets and usually end up still turning an, albeit small, profit. Now in G&K, I find myself running a deficit with almost any civ on any terrain type.

My thoughts on why this could be are:

1) Maybe I'm building more buildings than I used to? In particular, it could be the addition of shrines, which I almost always build multiple of early on (I try to play peacefully until I get a size-able tech advantage). If this is the case, it could be I'm getting extra maintance costs than in vanilla.

2) Maybe city-tiles have had their gold production lowered? I wouldn't be surprised, given that certain religion mechanics and beliefs can bolster gold production in various ways.

3) Have unit maintance costs been changed?

I've played a number of games already in G&K, mostly short-ish Duels and a couple Standard map games, and just haven't gotten around to checking out the whole 'pedia (mostly checked the 'pedia for new units, UA's, and SP changes).

Trade posts are being post-poned until the end of the Early phase of the game, so you can't get up any early commerce cities to get yourself through the Ancient/Classical era's without going to markets.

Instead now, if you neglect commerce boosting improvements/buildings you'll pay for it with a tanked economy. Since you're going to science instead you're getting a nice boost to your science output while sacrificing short term commerce growth; this to me sounds like a really good trade off and gives consequences for going hard science while neglecting everything else.

builders (like me) need to re-think our specializing. Ive had a hard time with my economy, i miss libraries having a specialist slot (2, right?) and i also miss being able to build up some wealth but i will have to sell more resources and build less troops. About 3 composite bowman and a spearman a nice early defense army maketh.

my current problem is actually knowing when to expand because i don't want to do it too early (before i reveal resources) or too late (when they would harm more than help and take too long to do anything worthwhile like build a troop).

I guess no more barracks and armories for me

mabalogna said:

Trade posts are being post-poned until the end of the Early phase of the game, so you can't get up any early commerce cities to get yourself through the Ancient/Classical era's without going to markets.

Instead now, if you neglect commerce boosting improvements/buildings you'll pay for it with a tanked economy. Since you're going to science instead you're getting a nice boost to your science output while sacrificing short term commerce growth; this to me sounds like a really good trade off and gives consequences for going hard science while neglecting everything else.

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Ah, that's why. That also explains why I seem to be building more farms and mines than ever in the opening phase.

That's why Dutch UA shines in early to mid-game. It allows you to by-pass low GPT while still maintaining healthy happiness. Personally, I nearly always had trouble with gold early in the game so I will need to seriously rethink my ways of playing the game as soon as I get to play it on Friday.

The days of early trade post spam are over.

If you're going to go hard into science then you might have to consider selling off resources in the early game - atleast until markets are available - for GPT or a surplus of gold that you hold onto for those bad times. You'll have to avoid buying city states with gold, or rush buying settlers and focus on building up a really big surplus while you rush down the line for education.

Luxury tiles and rivers are even more vital in the early game to providing gold. Hell, even coastal cities are going to be options for getting gold output open

I have heard the economic concerns from several, but I don't think the TPs are the cause. I have never used them much myself until the +2 gold from economics, so I wonder if its something else.

Does this mean everyone's going to be building the colossus? Because that would be hilarious.

Colossus is the new meta!!!

Was the Palace always only +3 gold?

Perhaps there were changes somewhere thats causing more of a drain on peoples economy but i just can't see where. My units don't really seem to be costing me more then they normally would, and most of the buildings have the same maintenance costs. The only thing i'm personally finding different is that when i'm finding myself in a bind pre-markets, I would normally send my workers to a river city and start spamming TP's to stay out of the red.

Religious beliefs have some of gold modifiers, so if there are any changes it's probably to balance out the early game

i never used to build trading posts early so it seems pretty similiar to me. luxury sales carry early then markets & trade routes take over

I go Tradition first usually and have piles of cash.

The secret to gold in G&K is in the beliefs and managing your religion. Even if you don't focus much on faith, if you build a shrine in every city your fine. Just pick the cash granting beliefs and spread your religion like the plague. You can get ALOT of gold. The key is to infect other countries before they found religions. Preferably in the capitals. If you do it BEFORE they found a religion it will spread out like crazy with nothing to fight and can even help your diplomatic relations.

Theodora + Goddess of Love + Ceremonial Burial + Mosque + Tithe + (The one that speeds up your religion's spread) + Your choice = EZ Mode
Alternatively go Egypt + Messenger of the Gods + Church Property + Feed the World + Guru and just ICS specialist cities for the win.

S.K. Ren said:

Theodora + Goddess of Love + Ceremonial Burial + Mosque + Tithe + (The one that speeds up your religion's spread) + Your choice = EZ Mode
Alternatively go Egypt + Messenger of the Gods + Church Property + Feed the World + Guru and just ICS specialist cities for the win.

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With religion now in the game, it's just another option to up your production, science, culture, or gold. Having a smaller economy at the game's early start reflects that change nicely IMO.