How well has your country been represented in game?

Canada. It hasn't really been represented at all. If you're going to include two city states from a single nation, maybe that nation is big enough to make an actual civ.

The main argument against including Canada always seems to be that it's not the United States. I mean that's really what it comes down to - objectively Canada has been an extremely successful country, which has always punched above its weight (probably partially due to being self-conscious about comparisons to the Americans), but it's always measured with reference to its next-door neighbour, a global hyper-power of virtually unprecedented proportions.

There's also this idea that no important or significant people have come from Canada, which is so untrue I don't even know where to begin. Off the top of my head - Frederick Banting (discovered use of insulin for diabetics), Marshal McLuhan (communications theorist, of "the media is the message" fame) Terry Fox (founder of the International Terry Fox runs), J.A. Bombardier (inventor of the snowmobile), Peter Jennings (legendary newsman), Shania Twain, Bryan Adams and Celine Dion (international megastars who ARE NOT Justin Bieber), John Kenneth Galbraith (economist), Wilder Penfield (scientist who mapped the human brian), Wayne Gretsky (hockey legend), John McRae (soldier, poet, author of the poem "In Flanders' Fields"), Stephen Pinker (prominent neuroscientist) Billy Bishop (WWI flying ace, went head-to-head with the "Red Baron" at least once), Sam Steele (pioneering lawman), Lester Pearson (prime minister, diplomat, Nobel Peace Prize winner), John Humphrey (diplomat, author of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights), Charles Taylor (prominent philosopher), Sir Sanford Fleming (inventor of time zones/standard time, and many other things as well), and John Ralston Saul (businessman, diplomat and philosopher).

...and in a nod to recent events, Ted Cruz (politician, curmudgeon). You guys can keep him.

Beaver79 said:

I kind of like Paul Hogan as the leader of Australia. You know, Crocodile Dundee. When he declares war on you he could say that's not a knife, this is a knife and then DOW you. It would be awesome.

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Currently in my Australia mod Sir Henry Parkes (the leader) says such things like:

Angry Greetings:

Tell me friend, what is it like being the world's only living brain donor?

Look what the cat dragged in.

And thus the Galah returns.

Upon being defeated:
And thus a legacy comes to an end, however know this: Australia will always glow, as your men plunder.

DoW

You better run! You better take cover!

The DoM has a crazy amount of Australian song references in it too.

Beaver79 said:

I kind of like Paul Hogan as the leader of Australia. You know, Crocodile Dundee. When he declares war on you he could say that's not a knife, this is a knife and then DOW you. It would be awesome.

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The greeting for meeting this Civ would be 'G'Day wanna cold one' as Paul Hogan hands you a can of Fosters

On the United States I wonder what people would think of a Civilization focused on specialists. I don't there is a Civ that fills this niche. The current Civ 5 American attributes tend to favor early expansion and mid-late militarism which I agree doesn't feel all that unique or very American.

What about something that increases the number and value of specialists in your cities specialist buildings. The source of America's wealth is not just the wild west but also its entrepreneur culture, innovation and extreme capitalism. For the 20th century America created and sustained the largest middle-class white collar workforce in the world. A super-economy of manufacturers, bankers, scientists, investors that changed the world through its technological and industrial pioneering...

UA: All production, science and economic specialist buildings provide double the number of specialist slots.
The yield of each specialist is improved by unlocking a pre-requisite technology.
-Researching Economics will improve the gold yield of marketplace/bank/stock exchange specialists by 1
-Researching Industrialization will improve the production yield of workshop/windmill/factory specialists by 1
-Researching Scientific Theory will improve the science yield of University/Public School/Research Lab specialists by 1

Double specialists might be too powerful (so perhaps it could be kept at +1 per building) but remember specialists cost food and whilst they are more powerful with the additional yield from the technology you need to grow a big population to take full advantage of the UA. Also the culture guilds have no increase in specialist slots.

Since I am both I'll speak to both, but honestly I rarely play either.

I think America's original UA wasn't worth much (I think it was a reduction of 25% in gold to purchase land) because early on I never had enough gold to make that matter and later on the metric was too small to matter. At 50% it's much better. The UUs I still think are kind of shrug worthy at least because they come so late in the game. It seems like bombers are so late in the tree for me that I don't ever use them. I'm aware of course that as a civ the US got a late start, so obviously it would be skewed to later techs, they're just not as useful for my style of play. I do think in a Rhye's and Fall mod they would be great.

For Sweden I think the UA of the 10% boost is nice but the city state gifting of GPs is totally useless. Why would I give up a GP just to get along with a city state when the opportunity cost of using gold is usually much lower? I'd rather see that replaced with something that produced an extra hammer or gold for lumber mills, because Sweden and trees are kismet. Sweden build massive fleets [let's not talk about the Vasa shall we ] with all that lumber, and still had more to spare while England had to closely guard its forests.

I think the Carolinians are decent and accurate but I'm not a huge fan of the Haakepelitta, in part because of the way Civ nerfs cavalry. Pikemen were not that powerful against various cavalry or else Sweden wouldn't have laid waste to what is now Germany with such accuracy over the multi year wars.

Overall I think they're both decent, but I'd like some more refinements. Of course I also believe Byzantium is horribly UP so what do I know.

Redaxe said:

The greeting for meeting this Civ would be 'G'Day wanna cold one' as Paul Hogan hands you a can of Fosters

On the United States I wonder what people would think of a Civilization focused on specialists. I don't there is a Civ that fills this niche. The current Civ 5 American attributes tend to favor early expansion and mid-late militarism which I agree doesn't feel all that unique or very American.

What about something that increases the number and value of specialists in your cities specialist buildings. The source of America's wealth is not just the wild west but also its entrepreneur culture, innovation and extreme capitalism. For the 20th century America created and sustained the largest middle-class white collar workforce in the world. A super-economy of manufacturers, bankers, scientists, investors that changed the world through its technological and industrial pioneering...

UA: All production, science and economic specialist buildings provide double the number of specialist slots.
The yield of each specialist is improved by unlocking a pre-requisite technology.
-Researching Economics will improve the gold yield of marketplace/bank/stock exchange specialists by 1
-Researching Industrialization will improve the production yield of workshop/windmill/factory specialists by 1
-Researching Scientific Theory will improve the science yield of University/Public School/Research Lab specialists by 1

Double specialists might be too powerful (so perhaps it could be kept at +1 per building) but remember specialists cost food and whilst they are more powerful with the additional yield from the technology you need to grow a big population to take full advantage of the UA. Also the culture guilds have no increase in specialist slots.

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Doubling specialists might be too much, but I wouldn't argue against getting an extra science/gold/hammer bulb per 2-5 specialists or something like that.

You did get me thinking: on the ideologies, perhaps America should have to take a hit for picking anything but Freedom.

You're definitely putting forward a very good idea, something that soeaks to the weakness of how treats it now.

I am from Thailand.

As many of you may know, severe political conflicts has been throwing our country into several bouts of peace/unrest/protest/near civil war….for nearly a decade now.

The conflict mostly stem from one man in particular…Thaksin Shinawatra….currently a fugitive who continues to wield influence from a safe distance….sort of like a Hosni Mubarak who got away and retaliate….empire strikes back style.

One of the most annoying thing about this incarnation of CIV is that the leader…king ramkhamhaeng….has been portrayed to look exactly like Thaksin.

Bad Wolf said:

Canada. It hasn't really been represented at all. If you're going to include two city states from a single nation, maybe that nation is big enough to make an actual civ.

The main argument against including Canada always seems to be that it's not the United States. I mean that's really what it comes down to - objectively Canada has been an extremely successful country, which has always punched above its weight (probably partially due to being self-conscious about comparisons to the Americans), but it's always measured with reference to its next-door neighbour, a global hyper-power of virtually unprecedented proportions.

There's also this idea that no important or significant people have come from Canada, which is so untrue I don't even know where to begin. Off the top of my head - Frederick Banting (discovered use of insulin for diabetics), Marshal McLuhan (communications theorist, of "the media is the message" fame) Terry Fox (founder of the International Terry Fox runs), J.A. Bombardier (inventor of the snowmobile), Peter Jennings (legendary newsman), Shania Twain, Bryan Adams and Celine Dion (international megastars who ARE NOT Justin Bieber), John Kenneth Galbraith (economist), Wilder Penfield (scientist who mapped the human brian), Wayne Gretsky (hockey legend), John McRae (soldier, poet, author of the poem "In Flanders' Fields"), Stephen Pinker (prominent neuroscientist) Billy Bishop (WWI flying ace, went head-to-head with the "Red Baron" at least once), Sam Steele (pioneering lawman), Lester Pearson (prime minister, diplomat, Nobel Peace Prize winner), John Humphrey (diplomat, author of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights), Charles Taylor (prominent philosopher), Sir Sanford Fleming (inventor of time zones/standard time, and many other things as well), and John Ralston Saul (businessman, diplomat and philosopher).

...and in a nod to recent events, Ted Cruz (politician, curmudgeon). You guys can keep him.

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I completely agreed with you Canada has also made significant WWI and WWII progress as well without Canada it has been said the wars could have been extended for quite a period of time more. And I feel WWI would have been lost to the central powers if Canada didn't enter the war. And lets not forget William Lyon Mackenzie King started up our welfare state for the down and out in Canada. Plus YAY this is my 1000th post this now clarifies I don't have a life.

Japan Review:

Leader: Nobunaga is a safe choice. Unifier and started the feudal shogunates that ruled Japan for 250+ years. Pro at military, innovator and supporter of new military strategies and arms, and a major patron of the arts. Issue, though, is his modern portrayal is frequently villainous and cruel, and often demonic. Not a great guy to look up to, nor one that gets a lot of local respect. Ieyasu Tokugawa gets a decent amount of recognition and was the leader in other Civ games, but got his power mostly through allying with Nobunaga's clan, the Oda. So I guess Nobunaga does get some cred for that too.
Grade: A-

UA: Bushido is not a bad choice. Honor and loyalty is integral to the myths and realities of feudal Japan and WWII era imperialism. I am not a big military player, but I do admit it was a simple, good choice. I do note, however, that the lasting impact on the world is the popularity of its cuisine and culture, which goes uncredited (until the addition of the culture bonuses for fish and atolls, which does give a nod to the cultural importance of fish and the smaller islands, but is still very lacking).
Grade: B+

UUx2: Again, with a military UA they may as well keep going right? I would have loved a multitude of cultural and tourism nods, but these are not bad either. The most iconic unique military symbols of Japan's two most formative military periods, and ones that are recognized all over the world. The Samurai making fishing improvements feels very lazy and inaccurate, but is a fun gameplay mechanic. I know some people like my family (who were very anti-imperial back in those days) would get uncomfortable about the Zero being representative of Japan, but they would have a hard time arguing that the Zero isn't iconic and famous.
Grade: B+

Shinto: Just had to include this, as it helps balance many of my personal grievances about preferring the culture of Japan over the military aspects. Shinto, in my opinion, is not as world-influencing as many of the other religions you can "found", but I appreciate the honor of including what is arguably a single-country spirituality among many that are multi-national.
Grade: A+, thanks for the recognition of a major part of our culture!

I've lived in Canada for my entire conscious life, so, uhh... A mediocre wonder and two maritime city-states... Yayyyyy...

I'm ethnically a Croatian (Parents were both Croatian, lived there before they moved), so... One city-state... Yayyy...?

I was born in Munich, Germany, so that's a pretty good Civilization! Yay!!!

copperred said:

Doubling specialists might be too much, but I wouldn't argue against getting an extra science/gold/hammer bulb per 2-5 specialists or something like that.

You did get me thinking: on the ideologies, perhaps America should have to take a hit for picking anything but Freedom.

You're definitely putting forward a very good idea, something that soeaks to the weakness of how treats it now.

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I have thought about rebuilding usa too. I think the industrial and economic power of usa should be portrayed instead of its military power.

UUs: Bomber should be kept, not because its good, but the game doesn't have one and I like variety. Minuteman could be changed to a UB that replaces stock exchange. Something called wall street perhaps. Gives extra gold/science and also gold/science from trade routes.

UA: Manifest Destiny is actually useful especially if you go liberty tree and it has historical roots in the Lousiana / Alaska purchases etc. What I want to see though, is perhaps a UA that boosts GP generation (since USA has seen a large influx of talent from all over the world this century). Perhaps from alliance of city states. Each cs ally increase GP generation by 5 percent (arbitrary number) to a maximum of 30%. Gifting of units earns double influence. It synergizes well with the aforementioned wall street as the extra money earned goes to CS allies. It also reflects the many allies USA has supported and armed around the world. E.g. Isreal, South Korea etc.

Since my country is only represented by 2 CS', I can only offer 2 assessments about them.

Sydney as Maritime CS seems pretty appropriate. It was indeed the first city to develop in Australia.

Melbourne as Mercantile CS also seems pretty appropriate. Melbourne could have been represented as a cultural CS as well.


If Adelaide, Brisbane and Perth were represented as future CS' in civ 5, I guess they would be religious, maritime and mercantile respectively.

American here. They did decent enough. My only gripe is we've got Bill Clintington instead of George but I'm sure almost everyone has that issue.

Rooftrellen said:

I'll admit right up front that I'm sure I'm much less knowledgeable than you on Brazilian history, without a doubt, but Vargas would have been a pretty good choice. The man was one of the most popular leaders of all time, anywhere in the world.

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bane_ said:

I don't know about that, he might've been known, but 'popular' isn't the best word. Also, I wouldn't like to have a pro Anti-Semitic dictator as the representation of Brazil, but I guess it goes down as just 'opinion', which has very low value when confronted alone.

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As I said in another post, I think Getúlio would be a good leader IMO, despite his controversy. Every leader has its faults, and Getúlio isn't different. Of course, being a dictator, anti-semitic, close to the nazi politics is a huge fault, don't get me wrong . But the Brazil's advance during his command is unquestionable. Also, as Rooftrellen said, he is popular, or at least, well-known.

And in the end, Getúlio's gorvernment helped the allies against the axis, in exchange of a steel company.

As bane_ said, it's just a opinion, and a lot of people may think differently. So I guess Firaxis did the right choice using Pedro II as the leader.

copperred said:

Doubling specialists might be too much, but I wouldn't argue against getting an extra science/gold/hammer bulb per 2-5 specialists or something like that.

You did get me thinking: on the ideologies, perhaps America should have to take a hit for picking anything but Freedom.

You're definitely putting forward a very good idea, something that soeaks to the weakness of how treats it now.

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Well a UA that encourages you to use specialists would benefit most from the 'freedom ideology as Freedom already has 2 policies that enhance specialists - so you're 1st pick should be Freedom if you want to maximise this UA.
Yes you're probably right about doubling the number of specialists being too strong so +1 specialist per building could be about right.
So American Workshops would give 2 specialists and universities 3 specialists etc...
And specialists get access to the +1 gold/science/hammers once Economics/Scientific Theory/Industrialization is unlocked.
As this would get more powerful as the player advances technology so it fits with America perhaps So I would call this UA 'The American Dream' - Its a fairly broad bonus that can be tailored to fit to a number of victory strategies. But generally it works best with the freedom ideology and other policies that enhance the value of specialists.

It could be interesting, I can almost never see myself using the merchant specialists unless perhaps I was Venice, it always seems that science and production is more important so It would be intriguing to see how this works out, although it may simply just make scientists and engineers too powerful.
Otherwise another possible UA would be to leave the number of engineer and scientist specialists as they are but increase the number of merchant specialists available and make them stronger (+1 science, +1 hammers, +1 Great Scientist Point/Great Engineer Point) as this could represent the financial sector supporting industrial and scientific development which is also fits the character of America's industrialized economy. I would also leave the Industrial era technology bonuses to each specialist.

fuzzatron717 said:

I completely agreed with you Canada has also made significant WWI and WWII progress as well without Canada it has been said the wars could have been extended for quite a period of time more. And I feel WWI would have been lost to the central powers if Canada didn't enter the war. And lets not forget William Lyon Mackenzie King started up our welfare state for the down and out in Canada. Plus YAY this is my 1000th post this now clarifies I don't have a life.

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Fine Canada can be a civ. You're leader has to be Bieber though. He will have generic diplomatic lines, but he will always sing them to you. I bet the human player kills him off pretty fast.

Bad Wolf said:

Canada. It hasn't really been represented at all. If you're going to include two city states from a single nation, maybe that nation is big enough to make an actual civ.

The main argument against including Canada always seems to be that it's not the United States. I mean that's really what it comes down to - objectively Canada has been an extremely successful country, which has always punched above its weight (probably partially due to being self-conscious about comparisons to the Americans), but it's always measured with reference to its next-door neighbour, a global hyper-power of virtually unprecedented proportions.

There's also this idea that no important or significant people have come from Canada, which is so untrue I don't even know where to begin. Off the top of my head - Frederick Banting (discovered use of insulin for diabetics), Marshal McLuhan (communications theorist, of "the media is the message" fame) Terry Fox (founder of the International Terry Fox runs), J.A. Bombardier (inventor of the snowmobile), Peter Jennings (legendary newsman), Shania Twain, Bryan Adams and Celine Dion (international megastars who ARE NOT Justin Bieber), John Kenneth Galbraith (economist), Wilder Penfield (scientist who mapped the human brian), Wayne Gretsky (hockey legend), John McRae (soldier, poet, author of the poem "In Flanders' Fields"), Stephen Pinker (prominent neuroscientist) Billy Bishop (WWI flying ace, went head-to-head with the "Red Baron" at least once), Sam Steele (pioneering lawman), Lester Pearson (prime minister, diplomat, Nobel Peace Prize winner), John Humphrey (diplomat, author of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights), Charles Taylor (prominent philosopher), Sir Sanford Fleming (inventor of time zones/standard time, and many other things as well), and John Ralston Saul (businessman, diplomat and philosopher).

...and in a nod to recent events, Ted Cruz (politician, curmudgeon). You guys can keep him.

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Or John C. Garand creator of the great American rifle the "M1 Garand" the first standard-issue semi-automatic rifle. It was described by General George S. Patton as "the greatest battle implement ever devised"

You're leader has to be Bieber though.

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Or their leader can be just straight 'Justin'. Because all of Canada's great leaders are all named Justin.

Dralix said:

These threads never end well.

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As soon as I saw this thread, I thought to myself, this is doomed to have one or both of the following scenarios:

SCENARIO 1: Person A complains that Civ X isn't in the game and should be, while Person B opines that Civ X doesn't deserve to be in the game. The heated back and forth leads to either the thread being closed or yet another dissertation on what "being a civilization really means."

SCENARIO 2: The thread gets littered with a bunch of people saying, "this is my idea for how they could make Civ Y." Which, of course, all belong in the Ideas & Suggestions forum.

Both of these scenarios have been done to death and have derailed other fine threads.

But I will say, to those who have actually followed the OP's request and commented on how they feel their Civ is portrayed, kudos! I enjoy reading thoughts from other people's perspectives, as it gives me a new outlook on various cultures around the world other than my own.

Beaver79 said:

Fine Canada can be a civ. You're leader has to be Bieber though. He will have generic diplomatic lines, but he will always sing them to you. I bet the human player kills him off pretty fast.

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Good <snip> God even I have to admit that would be terrible. Ok how about this Bieber won't be our leader and in exchange we will take the bankrupt city of Detroit and represent as part of Canada as an exchange.

Moderator Action: Inappropriate language removed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

My country isn't shown as a major civilization in any civ game. This is very sad .
I know that many people want my country to be in the game, but unfortunately, it won't be in the game .