Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Hmm, am I the only one who feels that the Nationalism Tenet should either (a) increase your culture or (b) slow down the rate at which "enemy" tourism enters your empire? Just spit-balling.
Aussie.
Aussie.
Featurette 2- How's your German?
- Thread starter Eagle Pursuit
- Start date
...and most other countries that like to make sense. There are two logical, and widely used date formats:
1. Day - Month - Year
2. Year - Month - Day
Either of these make sense, and are used by most countries. There is another one used, and it is put bluntly, quite a silly one:
3. Month - Day - Year
Here is a map of countries by date format used:
Here:
1. Cyan
2. Yellow
3. Purple
1 & 2. Green
1 & 3. Red
1, 2 and 3. Grey
Source
America just has to do everything their own bizarre way don't they?
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
...and most other countries that like to make sense. There are two logical, and widely used date formats:
1. Day - Month - Year
2. Year - Month - Day
Either of these make sense, and are used by most countries. There is another one used, and it is put bluntly, quite a silly one:
3. Month - Day - Year
Here is a map of countries by date format used:
Here:
1. Cyan
2. Yellow
3. Purple
1 & 2. Green
1 & 3. Red
1, 2 and 3. Grey
Source
America just has to do everything their own bizarre way don't they?
Yes, at the risk of insulting my US friends, this is another bizarre case of US exceptionalism-kind of like having no Universal Health Care & still using the Imperial system of measurement ;-).
Aussie.
LoneRebel
Emperor
So Patronage unlocks the Forbidden Palace. Its finisher is now the one where CSs occasionally give you Great People.
Exploration unlocks the Louvre. It allows you to purchase Great Admirals with Faith. Finisher allows you to see hidden antiquity sites.
Aesthetics unlocks the Uffizi Gallery. It allows you to purchase GWAMs with Faith. Opener is 25% GWAM generation. Finisher doubles the theming bonus from Museums and Wonders.
Exploration unlocks the Louvre. It allows you to purchase Great Admirals with Faith. Finisher allows you to see hidden antiquity sites.
Aesthetics unlocks the Uffizi Gallery. It allows you to purchase GWAMs with Faith. Opener is 25% GWAM generation. Finisher doubles the theming bonus from Museums and Wonders.
The first scene we see is Poland laying siege to Ulundi.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Another Tenet that I'm less than impressed with is Universal Health Care. I personally think a bettsr approach might be: +2 local Happiness from hospitals for Order, +2 tourism or culture for hospitals in Freedom & cities with hospitals can build units with the "Medic" promotion for Autocracy.....maybe.
LoneRebel
Emperor
I get the feeling (or maybe just hope) that Universal Healthcare will only be given to one of the ideologies, not sure which one. And the other two would get something else.
KdF should just stay as an achievement, maybe an ideological tenet if they must. Representing it as a "wonder of the world" is revolting. Why is Prora a terrible choice? Let me count the ways:
1) Nobody's heard of it. Unlike the Statue of Liberty, the Motherland Calls, or (I grudgingly admit) the Kremlin, it's not a recognizable symbol of its ideology.
2) It was never actually finished. It has never been used for its intended purpose.
3) Its primary (ersatz) user was the East German military. It's more of an Order building than an Autocracy one in that sense (cf. the Kremlin).
The thing about wonders is that they're extraordinary; they represent concrete human achievement beyond its normal bounds. Prora is only marginally more concrete than, say, the Volkshalle or any other part of Germania. Any megalomaniacal idiot can dream up the idea of THE WORLD'S BIGGEST HOTEL, and any quasi-successful megalomaniacal dictator can break ground on it, but it's not a "wonder of the world" if he gets bored with it halfway through construction and decides to invade Poland instead.
Prora as it's presumably being represented in the gameProra as the world's greatest workers' hotel, a source of Tourism and Happinessis a fiction. It was a figment of Hitler's imagination. The reality of it is totally banal and underwhelming: a monument to Nazi overreach and Hitler's short attention span, and an ugly prefigurement of the forests of Plattenbauten that popped up all over Germany (East and West!) after the war. Because yeah, let's not forget, the only thing remotely "wonderful" about Prora is that it's insanely huge (hugeness: Nazi criterion #1 for greatness; cf. the Nuremberg party rally grounds, the Volkshalle, the Maus tank, etc.). Apart from that, it's just an ugly, half-finished, low-rent hotel.
There's a long tradition, perpetuated in roughly equal measure by neo-Nazis, wargamers, and science-fiction writers, of wondering "gee, what if Hitler had won?" or "gosh, what if Hitler had finished all his fancy superweapons?" or "hey, what if something had intervened and prevented the end of the the war, and the Third Reich were still around today?" Making Prora a World Wonder falls pretty squarely into that tradition. "What if Hitler had finished his stupid giant hotel?" I'm almost certainly overreacting, but I find it really upsetting that the game is going to validate Hitler's vision of Prora by making it functional in a way it never really wasand never could be, given the proclivities of the Nazi regime.
Granted, I don't think Prora has actually been confirmed yet, so maybe I'm making a mountain out of a non-existent molehill here. If they do want to include a tasteless fascist wonder built by slave labor in the game, though, why not this Spanish one? It was actually built.
Inhalaattori
Emperor
The thing is that they needed a (culture/tourism) wonder for Autocracy and Prora is doing that just fine. If the war had started later, there really is no good reason why they would have not finished it. There are other good options for Autocracy, but most of them are not really culture/tourism related.
This game is about "what if". There are units like GDR and X-Com Squad. You are sending a spaceship to Alpha centauri. You have Civs like Iroquois and Huns building cities and spaceships. You have leaders that live 6000 years. I really dont think Prora is out of the line.
I support Prora.
I would have also hoped for Volkshalle to make it instead of Prora, even though it has neither been completed, it would have been quite astounding and would have made sense...
I wonder why would the Motherland Calls be cut off (if it was)?
I wonder why would the Motherland Calls be cut off (if it was)?
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Well, that's the point. It fits the Nazi design ideology. It's large. The only real argument that I tend to agree with is its incompleteness. I do think that's a good argument against it.
kingchris20
Wisdom Seeker
200 shares to see this video tomorrow with no subtitles, or just watch it on Friday again
I'm happy enough with the Prora but I was kinda hoping for something like a war museum with a culture/tourism bonus based on wars/battles fought, casualties inflicted, great generals generated or something of that nature. That would be interesting and different. The Prora is a bit mundane for my tastes given the alternatives. Not sure of any specific European examples, but perhaps something along the lines of the Yushukan?
nunor
King
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2010
- Messages
- 786
Should we tell them the video's online already?
EDIT: Nevermind, a dozen people have done it already.
Danthor
Warlord
Mind you, United States (of America) please.
America is the whole continent and most of us actually do make sense
Al-Iskander
Warlord
I'm just going to throw out there my distress at the Kremlin being the Order wonder. It was built ages ago, and only put its modern form under the Russian Empire, whose great ideological slogan for a time was "Orthodoxy, Autocracy, Nationality. See: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodoxy,_Autocracy,_and_Nationality
Therefore, it is strongly arguable that the Moscow Kremlin was built under an autocracy.
The Moscow Kremlin (btw, кремль is pretty close to the unique building Крепость - one is basically "Castle," the other "Fort") in time did become a quintessential emblem of Communist rule. However, the idea that Order must precede the Kremlin is ahistorical and a little silly
. The Motherland Calls would have been a much better Order wonder.
You can minimally rationalize the Kremlin b/c the famous mausoleum complex on its outer walls (partially seen in the intro video clips) was a total USSR thing. Still, at least China, Mongolia, Vietnam and North Korea also did communist mausoleums, so making this a unique wonder isn't ideal.
I'll still buy the game, but I'll be grimacing when I see order civs build the Kremlin.
Therefore, it is strongly arguable that the Moscow Kremlin was built under an autocracy.
The Moscow Kremlin (btw, кремль is pretty close to the unique building Крепость - one is basically "Castle," the other "Fort") in time did become a quintessential emblem of Communist rule. However, the idea that Order must precede the Kremlin is ahistorical and a little silly
. The Motherland Calls would have been a much better Order wonder.You can minimally rationalize the Kremlin b/c the famous mausoleum complex on its outer walls (partially seen in the intro video clips) was a total USSR thing. Still, at least China, Mongolia, Vietnam and North Korea also did communist mausoleums, so making this a unique wonder isn't ideal.
I'll still buy the game, but I'll be grimacing when I see order civs build the Kremlin.
