March Patch Notes (formerly february)

ohioastronomy · Feb 17, 2011

I like the idea that they're paying attention. Since the AI players very much benefited from ICS, however, won't crippling it make them even less competitive?

Sneaks · Feb 17, 2011

I would say that ICS is not really that badly crippled here at all.

The true check will be whether the AI just creates a city lattice of 3 spaces instead of 2, still utterly ignoring terrain, or whether it better takes into account the land itself. If the fix was literally pushing cities 1 further apart, my guess is that you will see a continuation of as-is ICSing from the AI.

Itfan · Feb 17, 2011

Bug, bug, bug. This is first problem.

Ahriman · Feb 17, 2011

I don't think any modders would be bothered by ideas from their mods going in; rather the reverse, I think modders think the design balance choices they have made were improvements, and so feel vindicated in an official recognition that the new design was better than the original vanilla one.

Martin Alvito · Feb 17, 2011

Zyxpsilon said:
The only last question remains (in my case)... what am i gonna do with my free GP(by choice!) at Meritocracy?

Either you're taking a GS for a tech (or possibly an Academy, depending on tech costs) or a GE for a Wonder. Which you select will probably be situational, although some choices (Chichen Itza for Persia) will be obvious.

I concur with Ahriman that most modders are likely to be flattered by the inclusion of their changes.

Zyxpsilon · Feb 17, 2011

Lobox said:
To bad they don't seem to do anything about the stability problems late game on huge maps in this patch so this patch will for me be as useless as the other patches.

First line.. ENGINE.. Significant turn time improvements.

That probably does it.

elthrasher · Feb 17, 2011

Thormodr said:
Well, it's like getting taken to the hospital because you've broken your leg. While you are there they treat the rash on your arm but don't do anything about your broken leg. When you exclaim, "What about my broken leg!" a bystander says, "Talk about ungrateful! They just treated your skin rash!"

I am glad they are attempting to fix the game. I think the very foundations of the game are bad though (1UPT, Global Happiness, horrible AI, etc.) and that's really what needs fixing. So in the end, the skin rash is getting treatment but the leg will remain broken.

I think a better analogy would be going to the doctor for a skin rash and saying "but you know, my real problem is that I'm too tall." 1UPT isn't a broken leg. It's a design decision that some like, some don't.

SuperJay · Feb 17, 2011

Looks like a lot of really good changes. I'm glad they're still working on improving the game and seem to have a better sense for the balance problems. Definitely glad to see many buildings becoming more useful and/or less expensive. It's a lot to take in just reading the patch notes, will be interesting to see how the game feels after the patch. I'm actually looking forward to firing up Civ 5 for the first time in months!

Thormodr · Feb 17, 2011

elthrasher said:
I think a better analogy would be going to the doctor for a skin rash and saying "but you know, my real problem is that I'm too tall." 1UPT isn't a broken leg. It's a design decision that some like, some don't.

I don't agree.

I am not a big fan of the SOD but at least the AI could use that correctly. The AI is totally lost with 1UPT and nothing in this patch seems to indicate that this will even be addressed in this skin rash treatment.

1UPT essentially ensures that you'll have a lousy AI. The leg will still be broken after this patch.

I will give it a try though. I paid $60 for this game so I might as well try another game or two.

Yesod · Feb 17, 2011

Yeah, I was under the impression that mods were half the development for the Civ series. I remember how they rolled in all those unofficial patches in Civ IV. I don't see a problem with it; some of the guys have even been hired by Firaxis in the past. It's what made/makes this a community based game.

I think the solution to the 1UPT is gonna be to bring back armies from Civ III. Let four units or so occupy a single tile by linking them up with a general. I seriously hope they try this out.

Valkrionn · Feb 17, 2011

Kopernikus1979 said:
I am confused:

Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

So does it increase or decrease?

Late to this discussion but I had to sleep...

Several others are correct. Each city contributes a %increase to the cost of any future policies, and this policy reduces that %increase.

Bibor said:
Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

Long explanation:
If you found a new city, it will permanently increase your SP costs by +33%. With Representation, your next social policy will not be affected by this new city. But all future policy gains will be counting that city in as well.

Lets say you are 7 turns away from a social policy. Lets say you also have 10 settlers ready to place 10 new cities. If you have Representation, the new 10 cities won't affect the policy cost for the next one. It will still be completed in 7 turns. After that, the 10 cities' modifiers (10*33%) kick in.

This is terribly, terribly wrong.

Thormodr said:
I don't agree.

I am not a big fan of the SOD but at least the AI could use that correctly. The AI is totally lost with 1UPT and nothing in this patch seems to indicate that this will even be addressed in this skin rash treatment.

1UPT essentially ensures that you'll have a lousy AI. The leg will still be broken after this patch.

I will give it a try though. I paid $60 for this game so I might as well try another game or two.

Personally, I see it this way: Without an underlying balance to the game, the rest is meaningless. The AI can't handle 1upt? What does that matter when you can exploit the game in a dozen different ways anyway and are guaranteed a win?

To use your broken leg analogy... To me, they've just stitched up the stab wound in your back. Sure, your leg is still broken, but this was rather more important as a first step.

Sneaks · Feb 17, 2011

I agree with Valk to a degree. They stitched up the stab wound, cleared up your acne, and gave you some makeup to boot. However, your leg is still broken and they still need to pull that nail out of your skull.

Pouakai · Feb 17, 2011

I love 1UPT, it allows for way more strategy. If they are going to allow stacking, please only have it as an option through the Advanced setup screen.

seasnake · Feb 17, 2011

Valkrionn said:
Personally, I see it this way: Without an underlying balance to the game, the rest is meaningless. The AI can't handle 1upt? What does that matter when you can exploit the game in a dozen different ways anyway and are guaranteed a win?

To use your broken leg analogy... To me, they've just stitched up the stab wound in your back. Sure, your leg is still broken, but this was rather more important as a first step.

To me, the "stab wound" is the massive lag between turns. If that is truly fixed then I'll be quite pleased.

1UPT is not broken just because you do not like it. It's like eating ring donut and saying your donut is defective because it doesn't have jelly.

I agree it's harder for the AI to use, and firaxis should fix that pronto, and I like some suggestions I've heard to improve it like making it only apply to military units, but let you stack civilian units like workers and great people and embarked units (although this last would be OP with Songhai, so there's that). But that's all a case of adding sugar to the donut, not sending it back as defective.

That said, I'm gonna go have a donut.

Bandobras Took · Feb 17, 2011

Thormodr said:
I don't agree.

I am not a big fan of the SOD but at least the AI could use that correctly.

The AI could use SOD correctly? Everything I recall from the Civ 4 strategy forums seemed to indicate that the AI was terrible at warring. Perhaps I missed a few threads where the AI's superior tactics were just too overwhelming, but I don't think so.

Zyxpsilon · Feb 17, 2011

Pouakai said:
I love 1UPT, it allows for way more strategy. If they are going to allow stacking, please only have it as an option through the Advanced setup screen.

No... they *MUST* provide an option to turn the darn obsessive silly Stacks off if they ever - for the life of me - re_introduce such an additional warlike mess to an already puzzled algorithmic tactical plan(s) by AIs.
It was quite enough to have to scroll out the weird & superfluous "Allow Policy Savings + Promotions" tricky check-boxes out of my way.

vexing · Feb 17, 2011

Valkrionn said:
Several others are correct. Each city contributes a %increase to the cost of any future policies, and this policy reduces that %increase.

it is really poorly worded, the inclusion of the word next is suspect. why not say "future policies"

i guess if you're right it changes the city multiplier to +20% of base from +30% on standard size.

2K Greg · Feb 17, 2011

Hey guys, there was a mistake in the patch notes which has been corrected. The change to Representation should have read as:

Representation: Each city you found will increase the Culture cost of Policies by 33% less than normal. Also starts a Golden Age.

KrikkitTwo · Feb 17, 2011

2K Greg said:
Hey guys, there was a mistake in the patch notes which has been corrected. The change to Representation should have read as:

Representation: Each city you found will increase the Culture cost of Policies by 33% less than normal. Also starts a Golden Age.

Thanks,
Any details on the Legalism "cultural buildings"?

Redoubts · Feb 17, 2011

2K Greg said:
Hey guys, there was a mistake in the patch notes which has been corrected. The change to Representation should have read as:

Representation: Each city you found will increase the Culture cost of Policies by 33% less than normal. Also starts a Golden Age.

Thanks, that cleans up the language a bit.

March Patch Notes (formerly february)

King

Brooklyn Bum

Chieftain

Tyrant

Real men play SMAC

Running Spider

Revcaster

Bending Space and Time

Servant of Civ

Warlord

The Hamster King

Brooklyn Bum

It belongs in a museum.

Conquistador

Emperor

Running Spider

knows

<span style="font-weight:bold; text-decoration: un

Immortal

Chieftain

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