When to upgrade units?

So I've watched a few deity lets-plays and I've noticed that high level players frequently wait a loooooooong time before upgrading units. I on the other hand try to upgrade the turn the new (presumably stronger) unit becomes available.

I can understand maybe holding off on upgrading a good xbow, but I just don't understand why high level players wait when they have the cash and know that a fight will come sooner rather than later when playing deity.

Can someone explain what I'm missing? When do you upgrade and if you postpone it, why?

If you want an AI to DOW you, then you want to delay upgrading (but have the cash ready)

Conversely if you don't want any AIs DOWing you then you should upgrade units quickly.

I would say it depends on how much you need the upgrade and how much cash you have and are getting each turn. If you have the cash to upgrade all or most of your units quickly and you are at peace, then I don't see why you would need to upgrade right away. On the other hand, if you are facing a serious threat from a neighbor then upgrading as quickly as possible would definitely be advisable. So, I would say it is very situational.

yeah it's quite situational. I'm inclined to say that the Honor strategy explains it the best, you build quick and cheap Archers, first upgrade once you unlock the cheaper bonus, second upgrade once you get to XBs. And then it's show time

Defensively, yeah you might want to deceive the incoming invader by delaying upgrades and then springing the trap that will send them with their tail between their legs

I find from the Deity LP vids the Deity players like to keep their gold to rush buy the science buildings and/or bribe a potential DOWer to DOW someone else.

Me personally I rarely upgrade units unless they have 3 promotions. I prefer to hard build the later ones in a Brandenburg Gate city.

I love to play peaceful. So, if I have gold, I upgrade units asap. That keeps possible DoW of random factions away.

Minutemen, for the Golden Age points, I like to build in huge numbers, thus delaying Rifling; and then I upgrade, as I will have the cash to go massive up grades before DWing my target Bozo .

With Raging Barbs, and the 2 "Barbie+ mods, the full Honor tree more than pays for itself by 2nd trounced Bozo !

I appreciate the comments here. I didn't realize there was so much variety in people's approach to upgrades. It sounds to me that there isn't a strictly one-approach-is-optimum option. It sounds like you plan your upgrades with respect to your whole game. I always just hoarded cash when I knew a big upgrade was coming, but that's at the cost of buying universities, etc. I'm changing a few things in the game I just started (emp, standard, 10 civ, England). I think the only units I will plan to upgrade are experienced archers. It just never dawned on me to hard build "meat shield" units instead of upgrading existing ones, but there has to be a cost/benefit point where it's more economical to start units from scratch.

I am frequently impressed with how savvy deity players are with their cash and I think this is one area I could seriously improve in.

Upgrade units? What units? ---says my starting warrior

If you do plan on a war, then the upgrade happens because it's cheaper than buying outright, and if it's a direct upgrade, you can get the unit on the field in position when you research the tech. In war, timing is key. Otherwise it doesn't really matter when you upgrade, except I don't want to be last in soldiers.

You upgrade a unit if it's going to be useful after the upgrade...

The same way you build a barracks before you start to make units, not 100 turns earlier.

I upgrade as I go, unless it's just a schlub that is hanging out in a city. Otherwise I end up using the money to rush buy bldgs and find don't have it when someone DoW's me. Basically I don't trust myself

joncnunn said:

If you want an AI to DOW you, then you want to delay upgrading (but have the cash ready)

Click to expand...

You'd think the AI would know that units can be upgraded or rushed with cash and take that into account.

To me, unit upgrades are the same as any other decision/tactic/maneuver in civ: it's a question of cost:benefit ratio. As upgrades are activated exclusively through gold surplus, it becomes a question of the most effective use of that surplus.

For domination games (or games which utilize aggressive strategies), the units in the advancing attachment are usually upgraded as soon as possible, which is usually when they conquer a city as that territory now enables upgrading. The units that stay home and fogbust/deal with barbs/convince other AIs not to attack, they'll go for long periods w/o being upgraded, often never. When I see 3 or more units right outside my borders (or 2 w/ a GG) I'll upgrade homeland security to change their minds.

For non-domination games, it becomes a question of how to use the surplus gold to reduce turns to victory:
-Does insta-buying a science building in a core city reduce turns to victory? yes
-Does bribing a few culture CSs to burn through rationalism reduce turns to victory? yes
-Does having the presence of crossbows instead or archers patrolling the borders of the empire reduce the turns to victory in any way? no, not except for deterring DoWs. And the most efficient way to do so is to maintain the absolute minimum strength level, in both quantity (maintenance) and quality (upgrade cost) which still makes aggressors look elsewhere.

ShakaKhan said:

For non-domination games, it becomes a question of how to use the surplus gold to reduce turns to victory:
-Does insta-buying a science building in a core city reduce turns to victory? yes
-Does bribing a few culture CSs to burn through rationalism reduce turns to victory? yes
-Does having the presence of crossbows instead or archers patrolling the borders of the empire reduce the turns to victory in any way? no

Click to expand...

Does everyone care about turns to victory?
- no

qemist said:

Does everyone care about turns to victory?
- no

Click to expand...

I don't really care about winning games as fast as possible, however in a deity match saving those extra few turns could result in you winning just in time as opposed to losing. I have lost space victories by a couple of turns which could have been averted had I filled out Rationalism quicker or signed another Research Agreement etc