Arioch's Analyst Thread

GeoModder · Sep 2, 2010

Boris Godunov said:
Krakatoa sparked a world-wide climate disaster that was responsible for the deaths of millions around the globe.

That's a multitude of the victims from the 2004 tsunami disaster. And that at a time the world's population was barely a fifth of what it is today.
Note that the official deathtol of the Krakato eruption was less then 40,000. And I do realize you probably meant victims of the climatic changes post-eruption. But even then, millions is a big number IMO.

The_J · Sep 2, 2010

Arioch, are you somehow associated with these guys here?
Because it seems they are copying what you've collected without giving credits (see e.g. here, "Free Speech: Reduces the Culture cost of future policies by 30%?."; first the question mark and then the dot looked like copy + paste).
Edit: Seems they are linking to you, but naming you as source.

Calouste · Sep 2, 2010

bjbrains said:
Krakatoa caused the global climate to shift for years, and killed between 40 and 120 thousand people in the eruption. It also destroyed an entire island, as in broke it in pieces destroyed. And it then caused a major famine killing uncountable numbers worldwide.

Also, Themystic confirmed the Landsknecht, the longbow, and the immortal-

Landsknecht- identical stats to pikeman (including 100% bonus vs mounted), except it costs 1/2 as much (33 hammers).

Longbowmen- +1 range crossbowmen. Identical stats otherwise (80 hammers)

Immortals: +1 strength, 100% versus mounted, double healing speed, cost 40 hammers.

Those hammer costs sound like they are on quick, i.e. 2/3 of what they are on normal speed.

Eagle Pursuit · Sep 2, 2010

easily spammable units are pretty good, especially when your good friend and neighbor, Napoleon, suddenly thinks you look like a nice appetizer for his main course of world domination.

Calouste · Sep 2, 2010

Boris Godunov said:
Is it just me, or are the German traits/UA pretty weak? Especially if try to play them as anything other than militaristically aggressive...

That's the whole idea behind Civ5, you have to roleplay civs to get maximum benefits of their UA, UU and UB. If you want to play in a non militaristically aggressive way, don't play Germany, play India or Siam for example. Not much different from Civ4, where playing in a peaceful manner with an Aggressive leader wasn't that useful either.

bjbrains · Sep 2, 2010

Calouste said:
Those hammer costs sound like they are on quick, i.e. 2/3 of what they are on normal speed.

I don't see why. They match with what we know.

Thorburne · Sep 2, 2010

bjbrains said:
Krakatoa caused the global climate to shift for years, and killed between 40 and 120 thousand people in the eruption. It also destroyed an entire island, as in broke it in pieces destroyed. And it then caused a major famine killing uncountable numbers worldwide.

Ehhh!

Vesuvius has erupted many times since and is today regarded as one of the most dangerous volcanoes in the world because of the population of 3,000,000 people living nearby and its tendency towards explosive (Plinian) eruptions. It is the most densely populated volcanic region in the world.

One big eruption and 3 million people are gone.

If you don't like that one... how about this:

The last full-scale eruption of the Yellowstone Supervolcano, the Lava Creek eruption ... ejected approximately 240 cubic miles (1,000 km3) of rock and dust into the sky.

In comparison, the Krakatoa Volcano...

The 1883 eruption ejected approximately 21 cubic kilometres (5.0 cu mi) of rock, ash, and pumice

MisterBarca · Sep 2, 2010

Calouste said:
That's the whole idea behind Civ5, you have to roleplay civs to get maximum benefits of their UA, UU and UB. If you want to play in a non militaristically aggressive way, don't play Germany, play India or Siam for example. Not much different from Civ4, where playing in a peaceful manner with an Aggressive leader wasn't that useful either.

Indeed. There are many different civilizations--each with different strengths and weaknesses. Why would you not adopt according to the tools you are given?

Calouste · Sep 2, 2010

bjbrains said:
I don't see why. They match with what we know.

Arioch gives 120 hammers for a Crossbowmen, not 80.

Arkangelus · Sep 2, 2010

My volcano is better than your volcano!

Back on-topic, I still think the Landsknecht is a bit disappointing. I suppose if its the only unit in the game like this it is unique and does provide a lot of defensive bonuses to be able to replenish losses at half the speed, but still. It'd be interesting to see what its maintanence is, for offensive purposes.

Thorburne · Sep 2, 2010

Arkangelus said:
My volcano is better than your volcano!

Hey... blame Firaxis/2K! They need to give us more info to talk about so that we don't get into rediculous arguments like this.

Celevin · Sep 2, 2010

The reason the Landsknetch seems boring is in Civ the maintenance cost for units is dependent on unit count. If it was dependent on the sum of the production cost, then it would be a different story. Weaker and cheaper means worse in Civ terms, which is a bad constraint when it comes to creativity in designing units.

There's no "zergling VS zealot" situations in the Civ universe.

AriochIV · Sep 2, 2010

The_J said:
Arioch, are you somehow associated with these guys here?

No, but it's not a problem for them to use the information I've compiled... it's not like it belongs to me. It is funny when they cut-and-paste, though.

Calouste said:
Arioch gives 120 hammers for a Crossbowmen, not 80.

I'm guessing costs have changed a lot over the last few builds... a lot of numbers are going to fluctuate quite a bit as they tweak things before release. Which is why printed manuals are such a problem, and are usually out of date by the time the game ships.

Arkangelus said:
I still think the Landsknecht is a bit disappointing. I suppose if its the only unit in the game like this it is unique and does provide a lot of defensive bonuses to be able to replenish losses at half the speed, but still. It'd be interesting to see what its maintanence is, for offensive purposes.

I agree, that's the weakest UU bonus I've seen. But at least I appreciate that it's historical... the Landsknechts are mercenaries who depend on looting for much of their fee.

ProudAmerican · Sep 2, 2010

Not sure this has been updated yet. but someone i think "themystic" wrote a preview and answered some questions and I believe he said that the Englishlongbow does indeed replace the crossbow

Boris Godunov · Sep 2, 2010

GeoModder said:
That's a multitude of the victims from the 2004 tsunami disaster. And that at a time the world's population was barely a fifth of what it is today.
Note that the official deathtol of the Krakato eruption was less then 40,000. And I do realize you probably meant victims of the climatic changes post-eruption. But even then, millions is a big number IMO.

I didn't "probably mean" that, I explicitley stated as such...

The global weather effects of Krakatoa lasted an estimated 4 years. The average global temp plunged by over 1 degree celsius, and the crop harvests in many areas were devastated due to the chaotic weather, resulting in famine.

GeoModder · Sep 2, 2010

"Probably meant" as in "I assume but I'm not sure". Nothing further.

But I still can't find any figures on famine casualties as a result of the eruption.

TheMystic · Sep 2, 2010

Celevin said:
The reason the Landsknetch seems boring is in Civ the maintenance cost for units is dependent on unit count. If it was dependent on the sum of the production cost, then it would be a different story. Weaker and cheaper means worse in Civ terms, which is a bad constraint when it comes to creativity in designing units.

There's no "zergling VS zealot" situations in the Civ universe.

Considering that you'll be losing some units in war sometimes it is better to build outside what your economic can normally support. Just make sure you've got a little gold in the bank and you should be ok. It's the same reason why I think sometimes guided missiles are worth it despite being upkeep heavy, sometimes you want units handy that you can afford to lose (as long as they butter up the enemy of course).

Celevin · Sep 2, 2010

TheMystic said:
Considering that you'll be losing some units in war sometimes it is better to build outside what your economic can normally support. Just make sure you've got a little gold in the bank and you should be ok. It's the same reason why I think sometimes guided missiles are worth it despite being upkeep heavy, sometimes you want units handy that you can afford to lose (as long as they butter up the enemy of course).

Yeah, it's definitely needed for some of the higher difficulties, and doubly so for aggressive coms in Civ4. I think people will start salivating over these when they can realize they can produce them twice as fast as Swordsmen!

KrikkitTwo · Sep 2, 2010

Celevin said:
The reason the Landsknetch seems boring is in Civ the maintenance cost for units is dependent on unit count.

Untrue... different units have different maintenance costs

Celevin said:
If it was dependent on the sum of the production cost, then it would be a different story.

Well it isn't straight sum of production cost, but I wouldn't be surprised if Landsknecht maintenance is less than pike maintenance

Louis XXIV · Sep 2, 2010

marioflag said:
It was too good to be true.

Louis your Italian is really good

Grazie, studiavo per quattro anni, ma è ancora difficile per me.

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