Trade Routes

Well, thanks for your time and your response, Dan.
Unfortunately I can't own the ocean tile, as I live some 50 tiles west of the Maya :(
Seems I've got to wait a bit more before intercontinental routes... Anyway, it's better for me to check Babylon's potential border expansion from time to time. Even if I don't get the 3 commerce from IC route, having contact with a civ reduces some research costs.

Bye
Yuufo
 
Yuufo said:
Anyway, it's better for me to check Babylon's potential border expansion from time to time.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid that's not going to happen. The Ocean appears to be 2 tiles wide (I can't spot Coast on the other side).

@ rolo:
The Galley won't be able to leave the Coast, so a cargo Sentry Chariot won't have an increased visibility range compared to one standing on the land (both reach the 3rd water tile from the shore; also equal for Sentry on hill and on flat land ... :mischief:).
It's only after Optics that the cargo Chariot would reach the 4th tile, but then you can also send a Caravel. :)
 
True, but my comment was more meant to illustrate the general rule, as in Yuufo's specific situation a Sentry Chariot on the land is already capable of establishing contact, so that a Galley isn't needed (ok a newly built 5 xp Chariot might travel the 50 tiles distance faster loaded in a Galley if it's a highland map ;)).
 
Provided borders are opened with Russia, yes.
 
^That's right (provided he has open borders with Peter). They have established the bidirectional network link Aksum <--> Moscow.
Edit: Hah, x-post :).
 
I've not been able to get any spontaneous religion spread (from outside my borders) when I get stuck in an isolated start. I wonder if the spontaneous spread of a religion is also dependent on sharing the same plotgroups as trade routes.
 
ditchhook said:
I've not been able to get any spontaneous religion spread (from outside my borders) when I get stuck in an isolated start. I wonder if the spontaneous spread of a religion is also dependent on sharing the same plotgroups as trade routes.
Click to expand...

Religion spread needs trade networks, but not necessarily trade routes. However, you won't be getting random religion spreads before people start picking up astronomy as a result. I think a while back it was proven that you could get a religion spread from somebody w/o meeting them. Not likely in isolation, however, because normally the optics caravels are out and about before anybody picks up astro.
 
A very important thing wasn't discussed yet:

What things do you need, so that a foreign city qualifies to be trade routed with one of your cities?
According to my experiences:
-open borders agreement of course
-the route to the city MUST be explored and visible!! So if there is a road route, every single tile to the city must be explored, if the route is a coast route then every coast tile has to be explored! A city which doesn't have an explored route does not qualify.
-but sometimes once I have explored a city, I get trade routes with other unexplored cities too, but I couldn't find any logic in it.


Edit: Okay, I found DanF5771's posts about it, but I dont really understand it(actually it's really complicated). Could someone make an easy to understand guide on the subject, or explain it a bit better? :S
 
SPQR300 said:
A very important thing wasn't discussed yet:

What things do you need, so that a foreign city qualifies to be trade routed with one of your cities?
According to my experiences:
-open borders agreement of course
-the route to the city MUST be explored and visible!! So if there is a road route, every single tile to the city must be explored, if the route is a coast route then every coast tile has to be explored! A city which doesn't have an explored route does not qualify.
-but sometimes once I have explored a city, I get trade routes with other unexplored cities too, but I couldn't find any logic in it.


Edit: Okay, I found DanF5771's posts about it, but I dont really understand it(actually it's really complicated). Could someone make an easy to understand guide on the subject, or explain it a bit better? :S
Click to expand...

You mean that you found this post? Hmm, I actually found that he explained it excellently. However, it might just not be very easy.

The main idea is that if you see the border of another civilisation and can get to one of their cities with your present trade rules (roads, rivers, coastal areas and later sea areas), then you may trade with all the cities of that civilisation which are connected to that one city. (If you have open borders and no one is using mercantalism as a civic). If you discover them, then you can make use of their internal trade network.

But the above is not as precise as the post by DanF5771 and not entirely correct.
 
Yeeah! THX! Finally I understood it.
So I get trade routes to cities I have a completely visible route to
AND
to the cities these cities' grayish "trade influence" get and so on...(only those grayish influences are useable which arent hostile)
 
SPQR300 said:
Yeeah! THX! Finally I understood it.
So I get trade routes to cities I have a completely visible route to
AND
to the cities these cities' grayish "trade influence" get and so on...(only those grayish influences are useable which arent hostile)
Click to expand...

This will be true in 95% of the cases. Sometimes however, the internal trade rules for another civilisation are a bit different than yours. For instance an exceptional case would be: They can trade along the ocean tiles within their cultural borders before astronomy, you can't. This could result in you only trading with a subsection of their cities.
 
TheMeInTeam said:
Religion spread needs trade networks, but not necessarily trade routes. However, you won't be getting random religion spreads before people start picking up astronomy as a result. I think a while back it was proven that you could get a religion spread from somebody w/o meeting them. Not likely in isolation, however, because normally the optics caravels are out and about before anybody picks up astro.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. That bring up a question. Are you spreading religion to them or are they pulling religion from you? It makes a difference when only one side has Astro (plus those other odd scenarios).
 
It can work either way (the plots of both cities must be part of at least one of the plotgroups of the respective owners = :traderoute: -link, if you can trade resources then religion can spread [usually;)]) so it doesn't matter who has or doesn't have Astro. See also VoU's article Dona Eis Religions.
 
Is there some sort of limit on the number of trade routes your own cities can be used for? In my WB tests, they're never used for more than 6 other cities.
 
There is no limit for domestic trade routes -- if you have 20 cities on a continent and 1 big city on an off-shore island, this city will give you the intercontinental bonus and therefore show up as a trade route in all of your other cities.
Foreign trade routes are limited to only 1 trade route in your whole empire to one particular foreign city. If you tested it on a standard size map with 6 AI neighbours then this rule might be the explanation for your finding of limit = 6.
 
DanF5771 said:
Foreign trade routes are limited to only 1 trade route in your whole empire to one particular foreign city. If you tested it on a standard size map with 6 AI neighbours then this rule might be the explanation for your finding of limit = 6.
Click to expand...

This has implications for Civic choices too. If you have 60 cities and there are 5 total AI cities around the globe, then Mercantilism is an obvious choice. You're only going to get 5 foreign trade routes total since there are only 5 foreign cities (and each foreign city can have a trade route with only one of your cities). The extra trade routes from Free Trade will all be from 1 domestic city to another domestic city.

If you have 5 cities and there are 60 total AI cities, then Free Trade will be a massive boost to your economy compared to Mercantilism because each of your 5 cities are going to pick up one extra nice juicy foreign trade route and Mercantilism is going to miss out on every foreign trade route that could exist.
 
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