Why do other leaders have delayed starts?

Paszczak

Warlord
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
112
It seems like every game there's a bunch of dudes landing on my lawn like 50 years after I've landedl... what the hell? I thought we were all together on one huge spaceship that took us to the Planet. What is taking them so long to make a planetfall?

And don't tell me they spend all those extra turns looking for a nice location to land across the planet, when that location is 8 plots from my capital!
 
Spaceships from all around the world was launched, according to the backstory (as shown in the opening movie). So some of those ships arrive later than yours.
 
It was obviously a design decision. Not sure what the gameplay rational is but it works for me.
 
In Cid Meier's Alpha Centauri you all arrived on one huge spaceship that took you to the planet. So everyone got there at once.

But in Civilization: Beyond Earth everyone has their own little spaceship so everyone gets there at different times. You get there first, then subsequent colonies are dropped on some kind of schedule.
You can change it in the advanced game set up settings for everyone to get to the planet at once though if you want to.
 
In Cid Meier's Alpha Centauri you all arrived on one huge spaceship that took you to the planet. So everyone got there at once.

But in Civilization: Beyond Earth everyone has their own little spaceship so everyone gets there at different times. You get there first, then subsequent colonies are dropped on some kind of schedule.
You can change it in the advanced game set up settings for everyone to get to the planet at once though if you want to.

I always play with that selected. It really helps me decide my 2nd and 3rd city spot quickly. Unless one of those damn stations plops itself down right where I wanted to go. I swear, there's nothing in this game that pisses me off more than being one space away from my new city spot and a frickin' station plops itself down right next to my colonizer. :mad:
 
In the lore of this game every faction has their own spaceship, lauched independantly from Earth by different sponsors at different times (and potantially heading to different planets). So naturally factions arrive on the planet you're on at different times, it just so happens that your faction's spaceship is the first spaceship to land on this particular planet.... in every single game.

There is an option in the game setup to make everyone start simultaniously though, if that's what you prefer.
 
It was obviously a design decision. Not sure what the gameplay rational is but it works for me.

I think I know which is the rationale.

Exploring fast, getting resource pods and doing building expeditions is pretty good and fun gameplay-wise. However when every faction starts at the same time the number of resources that the human player will be able to grab greatly decrease, which makes this early phase very short.

With the BE system players are encouraged to quickly explore and get as many resources they can before competition comes.

You may think that this just creates a unfair advantage in favor of the human player, and that by removing the "staggered" landings you make things more even for the AI.
This is actually the opposite.
Those who land later get enough free stuff to overcompensate whatever you can get from exploration. So basically by rushing exploration and resource grabbing what you are actually doing is decreasing the gap between you and the late arrivals.
 
You may think that this just creates a unfair advantage in favor of the human player, and that by removing the "staggered" landings you make things more even for the AI.
This is actually the opposite.
Those who land later get enough free stuff to overcompensate whatever you can get from exploration.
Can't really agree with that. It seems like the bonuses they get for landing on turn X are fixed, so naturally it's impossible to balance the bonuses for all difficulty settings - on Apollo my observations are that the AI falls back really quickly, even fails to expand properly quite often, which probably isn't a problem with lacking starting bonuses, but wrong choices due to all the stuff that is available.

Overall, non-delayed starts make the AI perform much better and more consistent in my games.
 
In my games early arrivals tend to do better than late arrivals. Then again, usually the first arrival is Elodie (for me so far) and she is a beast. An annoying beast but still a beast.
"You betrayed me because you I am physically weak. I will fight you because I am spiritually strong."
 
Can't really agree with that. It seems like the bonuses they get for landing on turn X are fixed, so naturally it's impossible to balance the bonuses for all difficulty settings - on Apollo my observations are that the AI falls back really quickly, even fails to expand properly quite often, which probably isn't a problem with lacking starting bonuses, but wrong choices due to all the stuff that is available.

Overall, non-delayed starts make the AI perform much better and more consistent in my games.

Bonuses scale with delay. There is a RNG check each turn for the next AI to spawn or not. If an AI spawns within first 5 turns, they get no bonus. Spawns in turns 5-8 get a simple resource bonus of 25 culture, 25 science, AND 25 energy. Turns 9-12 get an explorer and 25 energy. After that, the bonuses get quite large.

Here's ggmoyang's explanation:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=536683

AI failure on Apollo must be due to basic AI play, not the bonuses. Given all the extra stuff the AI gets, I find it hard to believe the AI is worse when it arrives later. Maybe having too many units gives it a unit upkeep issue?
 
I know that they scale with turns, but not with difficulty. It seems that an AI that lands on turn 20 will get the exact same bonuses when landing on <whatever the lowest difficulty is> and on Apollo. That does of course lead to balance problems, you can't make the bonuses large enough to make up for the general AI stupidity when confronted with situations where they're able to build/do tons of important stuff at the same time and still have them be weak enough to not pose an unwanted difficulty spike for low difficulties.

But yeah, main problem is probably the AI that just doing weird things when it has a ton of stuff to choose from with very delayed starts. After all, it uses a simple priority system that is built around the idea that there aren't a ton of things available - but when the AI gets enough tech points after landing that it has 6 buildings available that have a higher total priority than settlers, then it will just build them first, without even thinking about expanding. At least that's my theory to explain my observations that AI is slower at expanding the later it lands. Not saying this is a fact or something that always occurs though, I only paid attention to that a few times - but every time I did, it was the same thing. The ones who landed earlier got rather wide empires and became relatively strong (if not conquered by another Civ that lands late right next to them), the ones who landed late stagnated if they didn't find anyone to conquer.
 
I know that they scale with turns, but not with difficulty. It seems that an AI that lands on turn 20 will get the exact same bonuses when landing on <whatever the lowest difficulty is> and on Apollo. That does of course lead to balance problems, you can't make the bonuses large enough to make up for the general AI stupidity when confronted with situations where they're able to build/do tons of important stuff at the same time and still have them be weak enough to not pose an unwanted difficulty spike for low difficulties.

But yeah, main problem is probably the AI that just doing weird things when it has a ton of stuff to choose from with very delayed starts. After all, it uses a simple priority system that is built around the idea that there aren't a ton of things available - but when the AI gets enough tech points after landing that it has 6 buildings available that have a higher total priority than settlers, then it will just build them first, without even thinking about expanding. At least that's my theory to explain my observations that AI is slower at expanding the later it lands. Not saying this is a fact or something that always occurs though, I only paid attention to that a few times - but every time I did, it was the same thing. The ones who landed earlier got rather wide empires and became relatively strong (if not conquered by another Civ that lands late right next to them), the ones who landed late stagnated if they didn't find anyone to conquer.

Some virtue choices would make a lot less sense then too. Like, if you start with two extra colonists, should you pick the Free Colonist in prosperity? If you arrive late, Extra Explorer Expeditions, Science for Dead Aliens, and Science for Expeditions are all a waste.

Suddenly starting with three cities would give you large unhealth at the beginning - maybe the AI is overspending on combating health in underdeveloped cities? I see AIs building lots of biowells, so the AI is obviously concerned about health.
 
I think the stagger starts are designed to give the player a kind of boost in terms of grabbing the resource pods earlier than the AI. Given that is optional, you can turn it off if it makes your gameplay experience too easy. In civ 5 on harder difficulties (king and above), it becomes very difficult to grab more ruins because the AI have their scouts roaming around while you are yet to build one.
 
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