Declaration of Friendship has no value?

A

aralad

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I'm playing a game as Venice at the moment, and I'm having trouble with Suleiman. Mostly he's a trustworthy as a snake.

I offered him a declaration of friendship, and the very next turn he declared war! Does the declaration of friendship have no value, or was he always set on invading?

As it panned out he never actually touched Venice (I still have some farms to repair) and he offered me 4 cities for a peace deal, but it kinda sucked that he trashed most of my trade routes.
 
It means that the Ottomans were "pretending" to be friends and would have declared war next turn anyway.

This does mean that Ottomans will suffer the Betrayed their ally negative modifier with all the other AIs.
And if you signed a deal to sell your luxury for 240 gold right after that friendship but before the war, then you effectively got 240 gold for free out of him.

It's normal post war when it's declared on you to have to rebuild most of the trade routes.

Having a DOF is a positive modifer for relations with that AI, and is also a positive modifier with AIs that likes the AI you signed it with. It is a negative modifier with AIs that hate the AI you signed one with. Completing a triangle of DOFs is very stable, and in fact prior to ideologies is unlikely to break down.
 
The DoF is not a Non-Aggression Agreement. It unlocks the ability to Sell Luxuries or make Research Agreements with an AI. The AI decides to attack based entirely upon your In Game Actions (forward settling, warmongering, building World Wonders they wanted, etc.) so if you were DoW'ed it is because of your actions. The trick to avoid DoW's is to avoid any Actions which lead to Diplomatic Penalties as well as having a large and modern Army to discourage AI DoW's.
 
aralad said:
I'm playing a game as Venice at the moment, and I'm having trouble with Suleiman. Mostly he's a trustworthy as a snake.

I offered him a declaration of friendship, and the very next turn he declared war! Does the declaration of friendship have no value, or was he always set on invading?

As it panned out he never actually touched Venice (I still have some farms to repair) and he offered me 4 cities for a peace deal, but it kinda sucked that he trashed most of my trade routes.
Click to expand...

I'll point something out.

"he's as trustworthy as a snake"

That should be enough to know that offering him a DoF is a bad thing.

Friendships create alliance, strengthen friendly relations and open up several options (including Research Agreements)

But not everybody is set on loyalty. People like Elizabeth, Suleiman, Wu Zetian, etc. are likely to backstab you the moment they want something of yours.

People like Askia (yes, but only if he's a far away neighbor), Gustavus, etc. are likely to remain friend.

It's a learning curve but I find DoF one of the better features in diplomacy, it's not as broken as everybody says, you just need to use bit of sense/intuition to know if the AI (which usually play the same).

Also, making DoFs with neighbors is always risky since they'll likely go after you eventually, but not always.

Also try to avoid befriending common warmongers.
 
The AI only considers the DOF of value so you don't DOW them and to ask for stuff. A civ who's relations are already in the toilet with most civs won't suffer too much with a backstab, Dido comes to mind. When she does the first backstab there is no further penalty for further ones. Furthermore your acceptance to the DOF will give all your friends(those you have a DOF with) positive modifiers with the backstabing civ.
 
when I see Sulleiman or Pedro next door, I always prepare to be bavkstabbed and it basicly always happens ...
 
Remember, they are one of your 7 (or 9 or 11, etc.) competitors and if they're programmed for a Domination Victory they only way to achieve that is to DOW on you at some point. Being friendly is only a way to potentially delay that.
 
Trackmaster said:
Remember, they are one of your 7 (or 9 or 11, etc.) competitors and if they're programmed for a Domination Victory they only way to achieve that is to DOW on you at some point. Being friendly is only a way to potentially delay that.
Click to expand...

Get a bigger military is a better way to prevent DOW.
Of course early on due to military advisor underestimating ranged units, it's more of a matter of always have enough military to defend yourself from attack.
 
Thanks everyone, I figured most of that was the case. I was just hoping to buy myself another turn or two. You'll be glad to know Suleiman is now in his place, and just as soon as my bombers get in the air that'll be the end of him.

I'm still surprised a "friendly" civ next door can turn like that, but I guess that's just how it is.

Venice is in a really defensible spot, and to get close he has to run under the guns of my frigates so I should be sorted when he comes again.
 
Suleiman has one of the higher "Deceptive" ratings of the AI, which means he pretty much doesn't care about stuff like that. There's a spreadsheet around here somewhere that has all the Leader Flavors, which I really love looking at.
 
ixias said:
Suleiman has one of the higher "Deceptive" ratings of the AI, which means he pretty much doesn't care about stuff like that. There's a spreadsheet around here somewhere that has all the Leader Flavors, which I really love looking at.
Click to expand...

Yup, if Ottomans show Friendly he's actually more likely to be planning on attacking you than if he's showing Neutral. (Unless you share an ideology)
 
joncnunn said:
Yup, if Ottomans show Friendly he's actually more likely to be planning on attacking you than if he's showing Neutral. (Unless you share an ideology)
Click to expand...


The second I see "Friendly" next to a Civilization like The Ottomans, Rome, or Attila, I know I'm going to get DOWed. I feel much safer when they say "Neutral" haha
 
I like it when I see the ottomans, rome or attila become friendly.... get that dof, sell them everything I can for cash, and then watch them waste all that money as I get all my horses, iron, and happiness back...
 
ixias said:
Suleiman has one of the higher "Deceptive" ratings of the AI, which means he pretty much doesn't care about stuff like that. There's a spreadsheet around here somewhere that has all the Leader Flavors, which I really love looking at.
Click to expand...

Looking for this?
 
That sheet is lovely, and pretty much proves what I've always thought, which is that Maria is such an amazing neighbour to have.
 
RancheroGT said:
This might be a dumb question, but I have to ask.

Why is Gandhi a "12" on Build Nuke??? He's also a "12" on Use Nuke.
Click to expand...

I believe this will answer your question.
http://kotaku.com/why-gandhi-is-such-an--in-civilization-1653818245

Apparently due to a coding mistake in Civ 1 Gandhi's personality was accidentally set to the maximum possible value for aggression.
I believe it became a running joke for the devs and gaming community alike so ever since then Gandhi has a fetish for nuclear warfare.

If I'm wrong someone please correct me.
 
Redaxe said:
Apparently due to a coding mistake in Civ 1 Gandhi's personality was accidentally set to the maximum possible value for aggression.
Click to expand...


To clarify, it was because Gandhi's default personality was originally set to the maximum value for "peace", which was essentially a scale of -X to +(X-1).

If you applied +/- 1 to a primitive data object (i.e. 'byte', 'short', 'int', etc) when it was already at its maximum/minimum value, it would essentially 'carry over' to the next value, which would be the value at the other end (SOMEONE WITH BETTER KNOWLEDGE OF THIS PLS CORRECT/CLARIFY THIS).

When Gandhi reached "democracy" or something, which was intended to increase the peace-weight of the AI leaders, Gandhi's value reset/carried over to the other end of the scale (a.k.a. the maximum-possible-value for war). Coincidentally, nukes were also unlocked at around the same time.

Thus Gandhi became the mega-nuke-maniac we've all come to love and hate :D.
 
Redaxe said:
I believe this will answer your question.
http://kotaku.com/why-gandhi-is-such-an--in-civilization-1653818245

Apparently due to a coding mistake in Civ 1 Gandhi's personality was accidentally set to the maximum possible value for aggression.
I believe it became a running joke for the devs and gaming community alike so ever since then Gandhi has a fetish for nuclear warfare.

If I'm wrong someone please correct me.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much. I have been on the receiving end of Gandhi's nukes in the past, and I always wondered why he had such a quick trigger finger.
 
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