First Thread!!!

What you think about philosophical leaders in MP? E.g. Suleiman with organized trait or Aggressive/charismatic (don't remember which leaders have them alongside philosophical)? Janissaries are powerful, if they come available early enough and with philosophical trait you might be able to get there early by using settled scientist in an Academy city + possible pyramids + Representation. At least against AI this can work well if you've enough food and if you can build Pyramids.

On the other hand I can see some problems against Humans:
* Pyramids would be very helpful, but unless you've stone the early growth is probably delayed too much
* After the pyramids are ready, you probably come target number one for the others
* Late game, when the cottages have matured and Financial leaders start to shine you're in trouble (Does the game last this long usually?) unless you've been able to grow big enough earlier
 
Oops. Noticed that Suleiman is imperialistic not Organized. He can REX fast with cheap settlers, but doesn't have much to backup economy (except specialists). Frederick is Organized, but his UU and UB come quite late.
 
I think I'll be voting for Elizabeth. I like GP's for early wonders / religions.

Most cities will be building banks.

Redcoats could be a late game war clincher?

I guess on a watery map I'd vote for someone else, Willem maybe.

On a rocky map, I'd probably vote for someone else.

Why do I keep thinking about the Mongols?
 
What you think about philosophical leaders in MP?
Philosophical is a decent trait, though it perhaps loses a slight edge in multiplayer as opposed to single player because you generally do not build as many wonders in multiplayer. Still, it's a handy trait to have once you're running specialists. I'd say that in most cases, other traits are stronger, though - unless there's a particularly strong UU or UB attached to the civ.

E.g. Suleiman with organized trait or Aggressive/charismatic (don't remember which leaders have them alongside philosophical)? Janissaries are powerful...
Janissaries are indeed fairly powerful for their time, although they're not very useful for my personal play style. I prefer to delay the path to Gunpowder in favour of the stronger economic techs (and particularly the Education-Liberalism rush), so I usually end up with Rifling very soon after getting Gunpowder. Thus any Musket units tend to get a very short - or even nonexistent - shift in my games. ;) Of course, I'd rearrange a play style to suit an Ottoman civ, but I still think that Janissaries, while powerful, have a very limited window of use - unlike, for instance, Macemen and Riflemen.

...if they come available early enough and with philosophical trait you might be able to get there early by using settled scientist in an Academy city + possible pyramids + Representation. At least against AI this can work well if you've enough food and if you can build Pyramids.
Pyramids + Representation is always a very nice combination. However, it's dangerous to structure a game strategy around getting a single wonder, because if you are delayed (eg no stone), or if another team beats you to it, you're at a major disadvantage. So while I think we should definitely go for the Pyramids if we have the opportunity and the time is right, we should not select a leader or plan our pre-game strategy based around a single wonder. I've found time and time again, particularly in multiplayer, that being flexible with your strategy is the key to getting ahead. ;)

On the other hand I can see some problems against Humans:
* Pyramids would be very helpful, but unless you've stone the early growth is probably delayed too much
Yes, it's fairly silly to go for the Pyramids without stone in a MP game.

* After the pyramids are ready, you probably come target number one for the others
It's not really quite as bad as this in my experience - geography still plays more of a role in teams' decisions to attack or not. But if a team is tossing up between attacking one of two other teams, and one completes a wonder like the Pyramids, it might provide a bit of an incentive to attack that team. However, this is a fairly rare occurrence - mostly teams have a pretty good idea of who they want to attack well before they actually do attack (since they need to plan in advance), so building a wonder like the Pyramids won't have any major effect in the short to mid term. And in the long term, it will have become a minor issue anyway. ;)

* Late game, when the cottages have matured and Financial leaders start to shine you're in trouble (Does the game last this long usually?) unless you've been able to grow big enough earlier
The game might last to this stage, but it won't be very significant in determining the outcome. The key to securing a win in any game is to get ahead in the early game. A non-Financial leader who manages to grab 20-25% more land in the early game will still be competitive with a Financial leader later on: it's certainly not as if you can't win if you're not Financial. But being Financial certainly does give you a little bit of an edge, which is often the key in such closely-matched games. :)

Oops. Noticed that Suleiman is imperialistic not Organized. He can REX fast with cheap settlers, but doesn't have much to backup economy (except specialists). Frederick is Organized, but his UU and UB come quite late.
Yeah, Germany and America are both not great choices for multiplayer games, because their UU and UB are both too late to be of any significance. I've hardly seen anyone play Germany or America in a multiplayer game, outside of when random civs is on.
 
I think I'll be voting for Elizabeth. I like GP's for early wonders / religions.
I'm not sure that I'd vote for Elizabeth for this particular reason. If you're wanting GP's for early wonders or religions, then you'll need to either (a) get a civ which starts with Mysticism to grab Buddhism or Hinduism, (b) build Stonehenge or the Oracle (for Great Prophets), or (c) build the Pyramids or Hanging Gardens (for Great Engineers). There is simply no other way to get a Great Prophet or Great Engineer in the early game. (I don't think Metal Casting and Forges for Engineer specialists counts as the early game.)

Obviously with respect to (a), Elizabeth does not start with Mysticism, so getting an early religious tech first is probably out of the question. With respect to (b), Stonehenge and the Oracle are certainly cheap and easy to build, but this makes them very popular with everyone. With up to 5 teams interested in building one or both of these wonders, we can't rely on getting either of them. With respect to (c), both the Pyramids and Hanging Gardens pretty much rely on us having access to stone (not to mention being able to afford the time to invest in building them).

Obviously it's up to you which civ you prefer. :) I just thought I'd point out that Elizabeth isn't a great choice if you're intending on a strategy of getting early wonders and religions through great people. (An Industrious leader - someone like Huayna Capac - would probably be a better pick for this strategy, because they get an automatic bonus on building any wonders. Huayna also starts with Mysticism.)

Most cities will be building banks.
Perhaps, but not until quite late in the game. (Bear in mind that these democracy games usually only last until the industrial ages.) Thus the significance of the bonus on the Banks will be minimum.

Redcoats could be a late game war clincher?
Redcoats are certainly very nice, although do they come along quite late (with respect to the timeline of a democracy game). Thus I doubt that they'd be much of a "clincher" for wars - by the late game, the civ in first place will almost certainly have a significant lead over the others, and thus the effect of Redcoats on determining the outcome of the game will probably be very minimal.

As a general rule, earlier UU's have more of an influence on the outcome of the game. I certainly wouldn't turn down Redcoats if offered them, but I think that an earlier-game UU might be slightly more beneficial. :)

I guess on a watery map I'd vote for someone else, Willem maybe.
Willem would certainly be a good choice for a watery map, although I think that Ragnar would probably be even better. This is because Ragnar's UU and UB are geared towards an earlier part of the game than Willem's (and thus they are more useful for more of the game). Also, the Aggressive trait probably provides more of a benefit than the Creative trait in this type of game.

On a rocky map, I'd probably vote for someone else.

Why do I keep thinking about the Mongols?
Personally, I think that civs which have Horse Archer UU's are less than optimal in MP games. This is because there are so many important techs to get in the early game, and Horseback Riding is relatively expensive and a dead-end tech. UU's which become available from techs that you will always want to research anyway (The Wheel, Bronze Working, and Iron Working for example) are more useful, in my opinion.

Bear in mind that my aim is to inform, not to force anyone's hand. Ultimately, what leader you prefer is completely up to you. :)

map announced tomorrow?
Yes, I believe so. :)
 
*points to LordParkin* "Yeah, I'm on his side!" :lol:
 
LordParkin, would Huayna Capac be ur prefered choice for the game? if not, who? ive been using pacalII lately and he's pretty good...thoughts?
 
LordParkin, would Huayna Capac be ur prefered choice for the game? if not, who?
Huayna would be up there amongst my favourites, but as I've said earlier, I think I'd still prefer Darius or Ragnar overall (depending on the map). Though I'd certainly be happy with Huayna too.

ive been using pacalII lately and he's pretty good...thoughts?
As I've mentioned earlier, I think that Pacal is certainly a decent choice. Expansive is certainly handy for the faster Workers, and the +2 happiness Colosseum is rather powerful. The only thing I don't really like about him is his UU, but then that's the case for several other similar leaders. (Huayna's UU isn't very useful for this type of game either, for instance. ;) )

If I had to pick from the three Financial leaders that start with Mysticism (Pacal, Huayna and Wang Kon), I think I'd go with Huayna - though Pacal would be a close second.

However, overall I think I'd still personally prefer Darius or Ragnar instead of either Pacal or Huayna. In part, this is because we don't know what leaders the other teams will be picking, and so Mysticism may well not be a very useful starting tech to have. (The more civs that start with Mysticism, the less the chance that we'll be able to get an early religion.) I think we shouldn't pick a civ with the early religion strategy in mind, because it may not work if one (or more) other teams also pick a civ that starts with Mysticism.

Having said that though, all of those four leaders (Darius, Ragnar, Huayna and Pacal) would definitely be decent choices. It's just a matter of picking the best of the best for the kind of game we want to play. ;)
 
Well, I think it's going to a be a sort of water map, & I'll suggest we go for Ragnar. His unique unit & building could be very useful if we want to do somewhat early raids, considering we can access the promotions of navigation II when we get our first GG on a settled water city. Obviously I'm thinking way ahead, but hey, we're in for a long ride, & hopefully a victory ride.

I'm also in favor for Lord Parkin to be our turn player, he seems quite knowledgable of multiplayer games, & Civ in general. However, I think we should reach consensus on decisions, so we can encourage people to be active, & feel like a big happy team.

Once the decision on the map is announced, we should set up a vote for leaders. Also, we should get a name for our leader & citizens too! How should we be called? Cause as far as the voting goes, we'll be the Saturn Nation, with possible name for us as saturnian citizens?:lol:
 
Well, I think it's going to a be a sort of water map, & I'll suggest we go for Ragnar. His unique unit & building could be very useful if we want to do somewhat early raids, considering we can access the promotions of navigation II when we get our first GG on a settled water city. Obviously I'm thinking way ahead, but hey, we're in for a long ride, & hopefully a victory ride.
Indeed. On a side note, I once played Ragnar in a multiplayer game where I circumnavigated the globe. Having 5 movement Galleys was quite insane! :crazyeye:

I'm also in favor for Lord Parkin to be our turn player, he seems quite knowledgable of multiplayer games, & Civ in general. However, I think we should reach consensus on decisions, so we can encourage people to be active, & feel like a big happy team.
Absolutely! This wouldn't be a democracy game if we didn't play this as a team. ;)

As turn player, I'd do just that - play the turns - and no more. In terms of voting power, my vote would be worth just the same amount as anyone else's in the team. And that's the way it should be in a democracy game. :)

Once the decision on the map is announced, we should set up a vote for leaders. Also, we should get a name for our leader & citizens too! How should we be called? Cause as far as the voting goes, we'll be the Saturn Nation, with possible name for us as saturnian citizens?:lol:
Indeed, as soon as we know what the map is, we should set up a poll with the top options for leaders discussed in this thread. (So far it looks like Ragnar, Darius, Huayna Capac, Pacal II, Mehmed II, Elizabeth... any other main ones I've missed? :) )

As for the team name, if Saturn wins then I guess we could be the Saturnians of the Empire of Saturn? (If Sol wins for the team name, perhaps we'd be the Souls of the Solar Empire? ;) )
 
Mehmed II, Asoka, or Darius for me. Organized trait is very handy.
 
Pres-Elect LordParkin of our great Saturian nation (lol, has a nice ring to it), I'd like to know a few things: 1) Can you recall the turning point of the last CFC Civ4 MTDG? 2) What in your opinion was the MAIN reason(s) for team Innovia's downfall? 3) What can we do differently from team Innovia to insure victory?
 
Indeed. On a side note, I once played Ragnar in a multiplayer game where I circumnavigated the globe. Having 5 movement Galleys was quite insane! :crazyeye:


Absolutely! This wouldn't be a democracy game if we didn't play this as a team. ;)

As turn player, I'd do just that - play the turns - and no more. In terms of voting power, my vote would be worth just the same amount as anyone else's in the team. And that's the way it should be in a democracy game. :)


Indeed, as soon as we know what the map is, we should set up a poll with the top options for leaders discussed in this thread. (So far it looks like Ragnar, Darius, Huayna Capac, Pacal II, Mehmed II, Elizabeth... any other main ones I've missed? :) )

As for the team name, if Saturn wins then I guess we could be the Saturnians of the Empire of Saturn? (If Sol wins for the team name, perhaps we'd be the Souls of the Solar Empire? ;) )

Saturn won. I fdont think everybody has voted, but it's 8 to 3.
 
Mehmed II, Asoka, or Darius for me. Organized trait is very handy.
Indeed it is. :)

Pres-Elect LordParkin of our great Saturian nation (lol, has a nice ring to it), I'd like to know a few things: 1) Can you recall the turning point of the last CFC Civ4 MTDG? 2) What in your opinion was the MAIN reason(s) for team Innovia's downfall? 3) What can we do differently from team Innovia to insure victory?
Very good questions! To answer:

(1) I don't believe there was a single turning point in the last CFC Civ4 MTDG, at least how I'd define it. Epsilon had a Financial leader and a focus on rapid expansion, so they gradually pulled away into the lead as the game progressed - I don't think there was a single exact point when the tide turned to them. Epsilon's technological partnership with another Financial team (Piffle) for a large part of the game also helped to seal it for them, although again I don't think there was a specific turning point - the two teams gradually pulled into the tech lead as the game progressed through trading. Once they'd traded enough, they were effectively so far ahead of the other three teams that there was no realistic way for the rest of us to catch up. And once a civ or civs have tech superiority over everyone else, the game is usually decided.

(2) This one is much easier for me to answer. I can fairly accurately trace Innovia's downfall to our team's decision to attack team Loco in the mid game. I was dubious about the move from the start, although I was outvoted by the rest of the team who were keen for a taste of war (we hadn't fought with anyone yet). The major mistake with the decision was that at the time, Epsilon/Piffle were in the lead, we were about in the middle, and Loco was far behind on the scoreboard. In such a situation in a multiplayer game, it is NOT sensible to let the leading civs grow stronger while the smaller civs fight petty wars. The intelligent decision for us to make at this point in the game should have been to talk to both Loco and Aloha about a three-way alliance against the two leading civs. That way, we would have at least had an outside chance of winning. Picking a fight with the runt civ of the pack was the worst decision that our team made during the entire game, and (in my opinion) ensured our demise. (Ironically, after our short war with Loco, our team then decided to try for the three-way alliance - but by then Loco was weakened and it was too late.)

(3) Basically, as long as we think through our wars carefully (unlike Innovia did last time), I think we'll be a lot better off. (Having a Financial leader will also be a slight help, of course.) ;)

Saturn won. I fdont think everybody has voted, but it's 8 to 3.
Okay, I guess Saturn we are then. :) We should make the announcement to the rest of the forum at some point soon.
 
Okay, I guess Saturn we are then. :) We should make the announcement to the rest of the forum at some point soon.
I've made the announcement now. Hopefully our private forum name should be changed soon. :)
 
Anybody for this " 1. SGOTM 09" ???

if yes join Wonder bumpkins :)
 
Huh? I don't understand... :confused:
 
Nice to see you there Lord Parkin :) maybe we could avoid Wooden spoons this time :lol::lol:
 
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