nationalism!

Al Zan

King
Joined
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What so great about nationalism!
what's your veiws on this topic?
 
Whats so great about Anarchy

answer me that quest. i answer yours
 
Because nationalism often benefits your nation. It increases confidence in your nation which often helps the econemy, military, and culture of your nation. The only problem is when it gets to extreme and you start being xenophobic and begin viewing forigeiners as evil.
 
I think these two terms have been messed up:

The Term-The Wrong Usage-The Correct Usage

Nationalism-A patriot who hates other countries-Someone who loves their country, is willing to defend it, and knows his nation's enemies
Fundamentalist-A stereotype of a religious preacher, mostly Christians, Muslims, and Jews-Someone with strong fundamentals by which he makes decisions or someone who simply has strong beliefs

Without any nasty stereotypes or checkered pasts, I consider myself a Fundamentalist Patriot or Nationalist Fundamentalist.
 
Now if I were European I would probably say the heck with nationalism and lets join the EU. Being American, however, nationalism is fine by me.
 
Nationalism is just an extension of tribalism and tribes were formed for the mutual benefit of it's members. Perhaps as people form bigger and bigger tribes they may finally achieve Globalism, but that is still a long ways off without the interference of an outside force.
 
I do not consider the life of an American any more valuable then the life of a Brazilian or Chinease or Austrailian etc.....

So no I am defenatly not a nationalist. Nationalism draws lines between us. I would prefer a more unified planet where lines are being erased rather then drawn.
 
Originally posted by Souron
Globalism will only exist if there is an active alian threat, otherwise whats the point. That or stellar warfare.

Why the assumption that unification can only exist in the presence of a threat?

In many small pacific islands the inhabitants lived under one law even though they did not know of an outside world.
 
Originally posted by newfangle
Since I discovered individualism, nothing else seems to compare.

I find it tough to feel pride for a collective.

Without a "collective" to protect the rights of everyone only the strongest would get to practice individualism.
 
Before the 18th/19th Century, Princes were land owners. You could be spanish and govern the Netherlands, it wasn't such a problem.

Things have been changed with the development of individualism and democracy. Once people had to be involved in the political life of their country, what they were sharing became a lot more important.

If we take the example of France, people weren't considering themselves as French citizens before the Revolution. Before, they were mostly brittons, alsacians, basques or normands. Napoleon's conscription has lead to armies where people coming from all over the country were together. That's how the feeling of being French was birthing.

During the 19th century, the importance of the National identity became a lot stronger. The Austrian Empire started to have severe troubles because of cultural tensions. Germany and Italy started to feel the need to unify each other. From 1800 to 1900, main European powers have changed from a Europe dominated by Royal families to a Europe dominated by nationalities. This is a direct consequence of Individualism and the development of Democracy (we didn't need to be a democracy to become a national state, Germany proved it... but the first countries that has been built around nationalities were democracies).

During the 1st World War, this idea of nationalities started to be perverted. During that war, people became less important than the country. The massacres of that war prove that human life became a lot less significative. We could kill 10,000 soldiers in one battle, if it was to defend the country, it worthed it.

From Individualism to Nationalities... we were now into Nationalism. Hitler is a direct consequence of that development of Nationalism seen as a vertue. Hitler was German but he could have been French or English... at that time... nationalism was strong and well seen everywhere. Nationalism was also strong in Russia (even if it was a "communist" country). Stalin didn't care of using human flesh to stop nazies. Stalin didn't care of the hungers in Leningrad... what counted was only USSR, not its people.

After the 2nd World War... europeans (finally) realized how destructive could be nationalism. From a vertue, it became one of the worst vice. It's still seen this way in Europe.

Because of the Nationalist virus, Europe has started 2 World Wars. Europe killed itself during the 20th century because of that disease (because nationalism is a disease). Nationalism is definitly something we still need to fight fearcely.
 
Originally posted by Immortal


tell that to Ghandi.

Nationalism: a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

I would hardly call Gandhi a nationalist.
 
I still say the word Nationalist should not be associated with any bad, nor Fundamentalist. Although I do think American culture as at least a little bit better than head-hunting tribes and that the American government is a least a little bit better than the Chinese government. So now am I a racist fascist? ;) :p
 
Nationalism makes a country stronger. Even though it has its flaws, you don't want to be caught without it while another nation has it. Imagine if you were the French during WWII, and you see those Germans coming. If you don't have the will to defend you nation against any enemy (Nationalism), you'll lose!

If Saddam Hussein all of a sudden came to America armed with BattleCruisers, I'll take up arms against him even though we started the war. Because if I don't, I'll probably die.
 
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