Which civ do you think is best for Tourism?

BlackWizard said:

Petra gives bonus also to flat desert which have resources like salt etc

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Petra gives bonus to any flat desert that's not flood plains or city tile, desert hills that aren't city tile and oasis. Resources aren't relevant to the bonus, only the base tile.

I have yet to test what happens when worldbuilder derps (can happen with some custom mapscripts) and puts forest on desert.

If you guys are talking about desert petra, why not get petra with morocco? Morocco gives you petra the kasbah which gives bonuses in desert along with petra that could really add up.

Athenaeum said:

Another question I have is about the Petra. A lot of people have been talking about it on here as being OP, but it seems kind of pointless to me. Adding 1 food and 1 production to a desert tile, you still only have tiles with 1 food and 1 production. That's basically an unworked plains tile.

Now I can see the benefit in this if one was Morocco, and they built their special improvement all over desert hills and built the Petra. But besides those limited conditions, I don't see what's so awesome about the Petra.

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A normal flat desert tile (not next to rivers) provides nothing. With Petra it now has 1f 1h. You can now improve these tiles with farms or whatever. Once Fertilizer kicks in, a farmed Petra-desert tile will provide 3f 1h, a very nice tile to keep growth going beyond what the terrain previously allowed. And hill mines now provide 1f, an added growth bonus to an already useful tile. It is very strong for very tall cities. It also adds +6cpt after Archeology. It kind of keeps on giving while you have it, haha. Plus you have denied the AI this wonder, possibly gotten CS quests, plus any other unforeseen bonuses from policies/beliefs/ideologies. I dont think it is a 'just a building' kind of wonder.

But if you dont have any/many good non-flood plains tiles you wont really build it. If you play at deity, then you have very little chance of getting it. It can be done but needs really lucky circumstances most of the time and should be planned on for pre-t70 for a chance. When you get a good desert start most players are already considering a beeline-to-Petra strategy and whether it would be worth it or not. Of course, it is fun taking it from them too, if the cap/city is good for annexing.

Imo, Inca uses this best if you get a desert hill/mtn start. (Highlands map will guarantee the mtns and hills, just might need some reloads for the desert.) Those desert hill Terrace Farms become monstrous tiles with up to 7f, 3h, with an avg of 5f 3h with a line of mtns around you.

Getting a really wide civ with faith buildings for +2 tourism from faith purchased buildings (cathedral also has art slot) would be very good. I think I will try it soon an the maya or Byzantium? Any opinions on which one is best for this strategy?

khanasaurus said:

Getting a really wide civ with faith buildings for +2 tourism from faith purchased buildings (cathedral also has art slot) would be very good. I think I will try it soon an the maya or Byzantium? Any opinions on which one is best for this strategy?

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Even though I will respond to you, this also applies to the OP.
Assuming you are playing against the AI then it comes down to difficulty, difficulty, difficulty.
As the wonderful Hammer Rabbi points out, on higher difficulties (diety) you really need to beeline wonders like Petra as early as turn 70 and even then you may not get it.

Going to assume however that we are talking Prince difficulty just to keep it simple.
Tourism victory is usually a combination of being nice/intimidating enough to have everyone open their borders to you (and maybe accept your religion too) but mean enough that anyone who is starting to run away in culture is killed off.

Taking a capital is not enough because you have to overcome all the culture that civ has built up, not just how much they have currently.

Brazil is the most obvious contender due to the extra tourism during GA, the UU which comes late in the game at a time when Hotels hit the scene allowing you to kill off your main rival and generate GA points and finally the Brazilwood camp which gives culture which converts to tourism once a hotel is built.

Byzantium which has already been mentioned is a bit of a gamble but one that pays off. If you can find everyone super early then sacred shrines will just win the game for you in record time. Just keep cranking out cities and filling them up with holy buildings. The side effect is that holy buildings generate faith which makes buying even more an easier feat and three of them increase happiness as well which makes an early wide empire easy!

France are worth a mention because they also get a UU that comes mid game to help with killing rivals and Chateaus once again offer bonus culture which will translate to bonus tourism later. Furthermore the double theme bonus is on par with Brazil because while the effect isn't as impressive when a GA kicks in, it is active all game long...Provided you are getting a theme bonus.

Spain hasn't been mentioned but Spain is great/rubbish at everything depending on how those dice roll. Early faith NW means they can steamroll out sacred sites very early and a culture based NW means when hotels come on board they get the tourism from it, higher than any other Civ. Might not sound very impressive but sometimes as Spain, you don't have to choose one or the other, if you roll great NWs, you can do both during the same game.

Finally the Zulu's. Having access to every wonder in the game at anytime is a massive bonus. Sure you have to take those wonders but Shaka just makes it so easy. Just march those Impas over, and you've already won.

Polystralia has been mentioned and while they have a coastal start (bias) I find the Moai is a calculated sacrifice. The ability to embark immediately to find other Civs is great and all but trimeres aren't that expensive to build nor do they take that long to research. Infact you are better off not building Moai until after hotels are researched and instead focus on a super production capital to grab as many wonders as possible to try and spread early tourism.

khanasaurus said:

Getting a really wide civ with faith buildings for +2 tourism from faith purchased buildings (cathedral also has art slot) would be very good. I think I will try it soon an the maya or Byzantium? Any opinions on which one is best for this strategy?

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It's sort of a gimmick win where you are going for an early (pre-hotel) tourism win. Byzantium is probably ideal, but more importantly it requires a standard or smaller pangea map on Emperor or lower with a strong faith generating pantheon (so you can afford to buy all the buildings!).

The idea is that sacred sites is the only way of getting a lot of tourism early, and if successful, can overwhelm the relatively small culture outputs early game.

However, Sacred Sites DOESN'T get a boost from the later tourism boosters (i.e. a hotel turns a Great Work tourism output from +2 to +3, while a religious building stays +2), so it's not very useful for a later tourism win.

So you are really aiming to win with it by the start of the industrial era or so.