Stuck on King

So I'm unsure how many threads are on this topic but I'd appreciate some help. Basically, I'm stuck between Prince and King. Prince is playable (and I win maybe 50% of the games, maybe a bit less) and King is way too hard, I get stomped. I know about little tips and tricks, and about how to build (wide or tall depending on the civ) but I don't know how to improve further and play king. Perhaps it's one of these:

- Should I find a few civs I enjoy and play and learn them, rather than play them all (i usually play China, Greece and maybe Aztecs/Incas)
- I don't usually bother with faith if I lose Stonehenge (there are other things I need to build in my city - should I incorporate faith into it?
- I still sometimes struggle on Prince. I'm loath to drop into neg happiness and gold when building wide, so I tend to choke my cities or wait until I have happiness to support a new one, and usually build on strategic resources.
- I rarely go to war if I'm not doing domination: should I consider warring with a neighbour to nab some land?

These are some elements that maybe I'm doing wrong. There always seems to be one civ that gets ahead and I can't stop it, and I usually end up 2nd to it.
I think it's my mid-game that needs attention: what to research etc.

Should I just stick at it and play prince until i win like a few i a row? That could be an indicator to move up perhaps?

TL/DR; Stuck on prince, maybe need to change my playstyle.

Thanks for reading (unless you read the TL;DR ) and hopefully someone can help me out. Again, apologies if this site is littered with pleas such as these!

Go luxuries -> science -> production -> science -> production -> science. That build / research order.

That's the tl;dr of my post.
The longer version.
Get whatever techs you need to hook up the luxuries nearest to you.
Go for writing. Grab libraries asap.
Go philosophy and grab national college.
Go metal working and start building workshops
Go on to education.
While working on universities and workshops / ironworks, go sign research agreements with non-tech leaders.
Use the spy to steal tech as much as possible.

When trying to warmonger or dealing with warmongers, bribe the target AI to fight other people often. That will turn him or her into public enemy number 1 and when you yourself declare war on the fella, you will not be disliked as much by the bystander AIs.

For religion, I usually start building my shrine the moment I get pottery. And also hope my start location has resources that allow faith boosting pantheons.

Regarding happiness management, the answer is not to avoid growth. It's either, when you settle a new city, make sure that location has a luxury resource you don't already have, or trading for luxuries with the AI, or building circuses and other happiness buildings and wonders, as and when you have opportunity to grab them (e.g. you already got your library and your workshop in a particular city, and you realize the other AI's are not that far ahead in tech, and you stand a fine chance at getting Notre Dam, try it!) and oh, also, faith-bought happiness buildings are helpful. Well, religious happiness tenets can be helpful in general. But be sure to guard your cities with inquisitors because later, the AI might just convert you and cause you to lose happiness.

I usually play on King and have been mostly winning on my first attempts of any Civ... And I usually just aim to overtake AI in tech or be on par with them in tech, before I proceed to choose a victory type.

As for culture buildings, again, fit them in between the times when you have libraries/universities/workshops/windwills/factories done and have nothing else to build. Units, same. But if you have warmonger neighbors, you can prioritize units a bit more.

That's a pretty solid plan!
I usually start by getting writing and then whatever I need for luxuries. It's around the renaissance that I fall off, I never know what to build.
Would you beeline straight for Metal Working after building NC? I can see the cool library, shrine, workshop, uni cities.
And about happiness/gold when building wide. Am i right to fear dropping into neg or should i just expand and let my happiness "catch up" when i get resources and whatnot?
Cheers for your reply!

Lots of questions there, not easy to be specific without a bit more info or a save.

Here's a good way to start off http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=523371 (Tradition three cities)

Faith is extremely handy especially for the end game. It allows you to buy Great Scientists/Aritists/Musicians/Engineers along with other benefits.

Don't be a wonderwhore. Only a few are worth the effort especially early on. At Prince/King its possible to grab most of them but it's still better to grow pop and science.

MaChew94 said:

...King is way too hard, I get stomped...

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What is the nature of the stomping?
If it is war work on your diplomacy. One pitfall is to settle more cities than the AI as then you'll get the "we think you are building to quickly" negative diplo modifier. Giving out a free luxury usually gives you 30 turns worth of breathing room for that.
If it is tech follow the classic science game where you go a 4 city Tradition approach. Liberty is harder to play. Just make sure you settle in good locations which are cities with riverside tiles and at least 1 unique luxury.
If it is culture then you must win the worlds fair and make sure you are in the tech lead by the Renaissance era.

One piece of advice is to watch the Deity LP videos on youtube. You'll learn some good habits.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look through.
Really, on King (and sometimes on Prince) I just find my empire isn't up to the same standard as the other civs, and I start to fall behind.

How to attach a save file? I can send you one I've started, I'm about halfway through and touching the middle of the elements in the demographics. (i've tried to find the save file but it won't show - I even searched 'WuZetian' into 'this PC' and it didn't show.

I just feel that come mid-late game on Prince and King I just don't know what to do, and always seem to be behind enemy civs :/

EDIT: Found the save.

So, I went to war with Brazil and shut him down, settling 3 of my own cities and claiming his capital. I'm friendly with Poland to the North and loath to fight him, so my only option now is to keep my 4 cities and make them as big as possible or keep fighting? Maybe I am on the right track and I need some confirmation, or I need to change my play style. I like the game, but losing almost every game (not coming 1st) is a bit of a grind.

phillipwyllie said:

What is the nature of the stomping?

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I've just tried another game on Prince, and decided to completely beeline for techs, so after NC I went straight for universities. While this worked to an extent (ive got the most points and are leading some of the demo elements) i was hopelessly broke and had next to no soldiers.

So, I guess my problem is, that I can't balance techs, money and units so well. I don't know how you can beeline for science and still be ok for money, unless you tech rush for universities after banks? But when starting a new city there are SO many buildings to build.

I think I just need a heads up on how to balance, or maybe watch some LP's all the way through.

MaChew94 said:

I've just tried another game on Prince, and decided to completely beeline for techs, so after NC I went straight for universities. While this worked to an extent (ive got the most points and are leading some of the demo elements) i was hopelessly broke and had next to no soldiers.

So, I guess my problem is, that I can't balance techs, money and units so well. I don't know how you can beeline for science and still be ok for money, unless you tech rush for universities after banks? But when starting a new city there are SO many buildings to build.

I think I just need a heads up on how to balance, or maybe watch some LP's all the way through.

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In Human vs. the AI there's almost never a reason to be broke (Unless you're hated by everybody, and in that case you have some diplomacy issues to work out)

One of the biggest money making tips is that you can sell your resources to other players.

On Standard Speed, you can sell extra luxury resources for 7 gpt // 240 flat gold // 15gpt for two.

You can also sell strategic resources for 45g each, 2gpt:1, or usually around 1:1gpt.

If you solve your gold problem, you can start signing research agreements with other friendly civs, which will (partially) solve your science problem as well.

As for your military problem, I ran into this issue when I was playing too.

The answer is to realize that every city can't have everything. It's okay for a city to not have a caravansary, opera house, barracks, etc. Figure out what you want for your cities, and pump out a few units from the ones that can. In a 4 city empire I tend to only have barracks in 2 of them at the most (Unless I am really planning on doing some heavy war- in that case I will only tend to have armories in 1-2 cities because I wanted the barracks national wonder)

I'd do exactly the rush universities technique with NC and tall empire, then beeline for scientific theory for public schools and then getting research labs from plastics, catch up on other techs with spies. Just build wonders and get social policies that work for your victory type, obviously this is good for tech but if you work your artist/writer/musician slots in a city with GPP Bonuses (gardens, national monument) and get the right wonders (Sistine chapel, Uffizi are on the way) you can get a culture victory.

It is key to grow your cities as large as possible to ,ale up for the lack of cities in your tall empire, you can get to 50+ with Aztecs (try inner lakes map with floating gardens) or any other civ with tradition.

Once your city has grow very large and gotten all the science/food buildings set to production focus and catch up in everything else.

You may have to kill of another civ with to much culture for culture victory and have efficient production for spaceship parts (or order great engineers or freedom spaceship part gold purchase).

Happy gaming!

MaChew94, do you want me to do a "Let's Play" for a bit with your saved game and give some commentary on how you've done so far and what you want to do next?

MaChew94 said:

...So, I guess my problem is, that I can't balance techs, money and units so well. I don't know how you can beeline for science and still be ok for money, unless you tech rush for universities after banks?...

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Don't do that.
For gold you want: selling your stuff, Tithe, city connections, and markets in that order. I usually build road just when I'm about to build at least 1 market, but earlier is better. Assuming of course your cities aren't too far apart.

LordBalkoth said:

MaChew94, do you want me to do a "Let's Play" for a bit with your saved game and give some commentary on how you've done so far and what you want to do next?

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I suggest you say 'yes'.

LordBalkoth said:

MaChew94, do you want me to do a "Let's Play" for a bit with your saved game and give some commentary on how you've done so far and what you want to do next?

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Hint: Agree

If you feel your money is low, get markets, caravans / cargo ships, and later, banks going.
Seems like you like going wide too. Commerce's policy that reduces road maintenance costs is not bad.

I'd consider a new approach to faith it can be great for great person generation if you're not interested in spreading a religion. I usually build a shrine early or go for Stonehenge and one of my first perks is usually something that generates more faith and then I try to aim for the religious buildings as the next set of perks like the Mosques. Then when the industrial era arrives if you've adopted policies the right way you will be able to buy a number of great people with your faith.

Science is king. Growth is the key to science. You need happiness to grow. Lets do a run of the mill King victory. Be a zealot. Don't fine tune, we're going to set the dial to 11 for science and growth. Everything else be damned.

From a tech perspective your overall guidance should be to get to science buildings first. Most of the growth techs are along the path. You can divert to happiness techs but this should not happen too often as we will manage happiness via other mechanisms. Don't forget to run science specialists. Once you get universities make sure you have someone working it. Get national college quickly. Under turn 100 should be a goal.

Social policies should be tradition first and all the way to the finisher. As soon as you are able to, open rationalism. As a result of using tradition, do not build more than 4 cities, this will make managing happiness easier. With 4 cities your priority should be on farms for the growth. Your settled cities should have at least one luxury resource. Aqueducts are great but you'll get them from Tradition finisher.

Building priority should be science, food and gold buildings. Critical for growth is granaries. You'll need these for internal trade routes. Happiness buildings can be sprinkled in as needed. Do not overbuild. No barracks. No forges. No stables. Amphitheaters only if you don't have science/gold/growth/units to build. Opera houses ? Forget it. Windmills ? No. Harbor ? Only if its archipelago or for a trading city. In other words...be tight with buildings that don't help science, growth, or gold. Get national college quickly. Under turn 100 should be a goal.

Religion can be very helpful. Can improve money, happiness, and growth. So build the shrines. Get temples but only after the science/growth buildings are done. For pantheons choose one that will maximize faith production unless you're going to cover that with a wonder. If you're covered by a wonder, go for Fertility Rites for the growth. Your founder belief will be Tithe as you struggle with gold. Follower beliefs you go for Pagodas if its there, Swords to Ploughshares if you don't have warring neighbors, Feed the world otherwise. If all those are gone maximize faith. Your enhancer will be religious texts.

Do trade lux for lux with AI if happiness is a problem. Otherwise sell extra lux for gold. Use caravans/cargo ships. If you managed your gold right, your cargo ships (preferred if possible over caravans) should be sending food to other cities. This is huge for science/growth. If you are in a dire money situation go ahead and use 1 or two for gold, otherwise focus on food.

MaChew94 said:

So, I guess my problem is, that I can't balance techs, money and units so well. I don't know how you can beeline for science and still be ok for money, unless you tech rush for universities after banks? But when starting a new city there are SO many buildings to build.

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Techs we covered. Money we covered (remember, if its not science, food, or gold, you don't need it) and units should be covered as well because now that you're not building all those non science/growth/gold buildings, you'll have plenty of time for troops. For the easy button victory you shouldn't need a massive army unless you have a warmonger next to you. 4 ranged, couple of melee units should get you through to renaissance. After that your tech lead should be pretty large and victory is pretty much yours.

Game to game you may get bad dirt, bad neighbors, but overall you should dominate if you follow tradition-science-growth plan. It works so well that it doesn't really need too much modification up to deity.

On King or higher it's almost a necessity to go to war and capture at least 1 or 2 capitals because the AI will usually out build you otherwise.

1) Pre-build tiles improvements. During early game build farms while making settlers until they're 1 turn to completion. If you complete them then barbarians will come to raze them but if you leave them incomplete then you can just finish them when you need them. The same goes for luxuries in forests, jungles and marshes. If you don't have the tech to work the resource at least clear the tile so you can build the luxury improvement faster.

2) Pre-build units. One of my general strategies for England is to bee-line bronze working for iron settle 1-2 additional cities on top of them (don't settle too much because you want large cities and lots of happiness) and then bee-line for galleas'. As soon as I get galleas I start building them in atleast 1 city while growing my other cities up. I don't spend any gold until I get my special units, in this case frigates. Once I get Navigation I usually have 6-8 galleas' waiting to be upgrade to frigates. Then you go on a warpath capturing any capitals and razing most of the smaller cities. Don't be afraid to dip into unhappiness if it means capturing a good city.

3) If you can peace deal for a decent city then do it. Yes it's a lot of unhappiness but you can always raze a city until it's population is manageable or sell it for a lot of gold/luxuries and dump a lot of unhappiness on them, hindering their growth.

4) If another civ is getting too much of a lead in science or growth bribe their neighbors to go to war. Good civs to bribe are Zulus, England, Mongolia, Huns, etc. This is great because it makes other civs target the warmongers rather then you and improves your relationship with the warmongers.

5) Save gold for units don't waste on buildings unless you have a large military already. A gold surplus ensures your safety in the event that a civ decides to backstab you. Purchase units

These tips are mainly for war/diplomacy games but with the capture of a capital or two you can most certainly out build other civs and win a science victory.

Gohmer said:

On King or higher it's almost a necessity to go to war and capture at least 1 or 2 capitals because the AI will usually out build you otherwise.

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This is terrible advice. You can easily win Science, Culture (usually), or Diplomatic on Deity without ever warring. The reason I say "usually" for Culture is that if one of the AIs gobbles up their half of the world of whatever you might run into problems piercing that culture. So try to avoid run-aways.

Gohmer said:

1) Pre-build tiles improvements. During early game build farms while making settlers until they're 1 turn to completion. If you complete them then barbarians will come to raze them but if you leave them incomplete then you can just finish them when you need them. The same goes for luxuries in forests, jungles and marshes. If you don't have the tech to work the resource at least clear the tile so you can build the luxury improvement faster.

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This is also terrible advice. If Barbarians are seriously that much of a threat (especially on King) then you're doing something wrong. "Pre-building" them also wastes a lot of turns on movement and also means you lose out on the bonus yields.

Mines and chopping Forests are also more important than Farms in the very early game -- you're going to grow mostly after Civil Service. Get that production for Settlers, Libraries, and National College.

Gohmer said:

2) Pre-build units. One of my general strategies for England is to bee-line bronze working for iron settle 1-2 additional cities on top of them (don't settle too much because you want large cities and lots of happiness) and then bee-line for galleas'. As soon as I get galleas I start building them in atleast 1 city while growing my other cities up. I don't spend any gold until I get my special units, in this case frigates. Once I get Navigation I usually have 6-8 galleas' waiting to be upgrade to frigates. Then you go on a warpath capturing any capitals and razing most of the smaller cities. Don't be afraid to dip into unhappiness if it means capturing a good city.

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This is a mix of terrible advice and good advice.

Settling on Iron is almost always a terrible idea as you lose the bonus production. If you have two Grasslands with one possessing Iron, settling on the Iron will give you 4 food and 1 production total while settling off the Iron will give you 4 food and 2 production total. Only settle cities on luxury resources *unless* you really need that strategic RIGHT THEN or something. And in this case you don't.

I did some testing to confirm this and noticed one odd thing: settling on Cattle seems to give your city 3 food. But settling on Wheat, Deer, Sheep, Stone, Horses, and Bannanas changes nothing (food OR production wise).

Pre-building units to upgrade into your newly teched unit is a good idea, though -- it means you get an army of Frigates instantly rather than having to spend 20+ turns building them. So you're effectively ahead on Tech in that reard.

But...that only applies if you intend on going to war, which you don't have to.

Gohmer said:

3) If you can peace deal for a decent city then do it. Yes it's a lot of unhappiness but you can always raze a city until it's population is manageable or sell it for a lot of gold/luxuries and dump a lot of unhappiness on them, hindering their growth.

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This is a mixed bag. If you're against a Civ that has a lot of money (which, admittedly, they probably won't on King difficulty) then you could just get the gold/luxuries flat out instead of the city in the initial deal. Dumping unhappiness on Civs doesn't tend to work so well on higher difficulties either. This one really depends on the state of the game and whether the city is half-decent...though presumably if you're being able to get cities in peace deals then you're trying to conquer the world anyway which makes this a bit moot.

Gohmer said:

4) If another civ is getting too much of a lead in science or growth bribe their neighbors to go to war. Good civs to bribe are Zulus, England, Mongolia, Huns, etc. This is great because it makes other civs target the warmongers rather then you and improves your relationship with the warmongers.

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This is good advice. Bribing other civilizations into war generally manages to slow everyone but you down -- just watch out for runaways.

Gohmer said:

5) Save gold for units don't waste on buildings unless you have a large military already. A gold surplus ensures your safety in the event that a civ decides to backstab you. Purchase units.

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This is terrible advice. You really only want to be consistently buying units if you're Autocracy in general (unless you're massively running away with a huge income) and the fastest Science victories involve buying things like Universities/Public Schools/Research Labs the turn they become available.

Basically, production is just so much more efficient than gold buying (except in some cases like Autocracy + Commerce + Big Ben for units or Order + Commerce + Big Ben for buildings) that you're much better off building those units rather than desperately buy them last second.

Gohmer said:

These tips are mainly for war/diplomacy games but with the capture of a capital or two you can most certainly out build other civs and win a science victory.

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As said at the top of the post, you can win a Science victory quite easily without conquering any cities. Hell, you can win a Science victory on a One City Challenge, even on Deity (so just your capital and nothing else).

Basically go with what LordBalkoth has said.

I'll add that simple priorities typically are > > > everything else. The "easiest" way to play is 3-4 cities going full tradition; making sure to found cities near at least one luxury you don't already have to keep happiness up and fresh water(river/lake) for more food after civil service. Hooking up/trading for luxuries and building colosseums/circuses should be plenty to maintain happiness. Chop forests to quickly build early priorities like NC and settlers.

Beeline the science techs and try to save gold for buying science buildings as soon as they unlock. I find just building markets and maybe a couple trade routes to be enough to keep making money for most of the game. As long as you aren't next to a warmonger (Shaka, Attlia, Genghis, Monty, etc.) you shouldn't have to worry about being attacked until late game so just keep a small army to fight of barbs and be something of a deterrent to anyone thinking of attacking, basically.

tl;dr
Science is king, not matter what victory you are pursuing, grow your cities, found near luxuries to help happiness, go tall tradition, and unless going for domination don't worry too much about military... and be nice to the AI, think of them as bratty children

King difficulty could be difficult if you use non traditional social policies that you're not used to. Liberty itself is also a difficult social policy to start with even. If you take it easy and use tradition, focus on research and then you will really learn how to get a victory. Even the king AI is difficult to defeat when the king AI uses the traditional social policies sometimes.