late game tech tree

It seems unlikely that either of these units are causing a crash on ~turn 15.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand the game construction well enough to figure out what is causing this crash (or how to fix it), and I keep getting one each time I run a test.

I have applied the tech tree patch onto another Dune Wars install I have and I have run a couple of autoplays for 100-200 turns without a crash.

The UnitClassInfos entries civcheck identifies should be removed, but even with them left in the game doesn't seem to crash for me.

It might be worth posting your error logs, Ahriman? And/or trying a clean install of DW?
 
@ Ahriman, regarding your crash, you put up a set of changed xml files in this post. It isn't clear to me if deliverator's patch includes that set of files. It also isn't clear to me whether your current crash also involves that set of files. Possibly, his files and yours don't go together correctly somehow, in a way which civcheck does not catch.

Can you separate the variables and see what happens?

In related news, today I am actually working on DW again. I have put back the corporations, and included some other minor updates. I am running some autoplays to test, but hopefully I will release 1.7.2 today. So far the contents are:

* Multiple production crash/hang fix
* Put back corporations for spice commerce, instead of palace building
* Deliverator's 1.7.1.1 patch
* Religion flavors posted by Ahriman
* Fix Mahdi spread on city conquest, currently broken
* New terrain buttons by Pickly
* Remove terrain costs for carryall
* Remove happiness bonus for diamonds

After I make sure this is all working, I may try adding Ahriman's changed set of files, but this seems like a larger economics change which may require more testing. Since I feel bad that I have held onto the multiple production crash fix for so long, I will probably release first, and then integrate that set of changes.

You may notice there is no actual *thinking* involved in the above patch; putting back corporations is just merging some old files. Ahriman has requested multiple times to change the radius at which water prevents spice, and that does take some thinking. So I have not done that.
 
It might be worth posting your error logs, Ahriman?
Which logs should I post?

It isn't clear to me if deliverator's patch includes that set of files.
No, it doesn't include any of those changes, I restored to a backup XML before installing Deliverator's changes. Its just the straight version we had updated with Deliverator's tech changes patch.

Ahriman has requested multiple times to change the radius at which water prevents spice, and that does take some thinking. So I have not done that.
Glad to have this noted. I think its a significant issue; a well seems to be removing too much spice to me. I would appreciate if you would discuss any concerns you might have on this point.

but this seems like a larger economics change which may require more testing
Yeah, it will need some testing, feedback will help too. I suggest we implement it concurrent with the tech tree changes

If we're going to restore Corporations, then there is not much point in me doing much AIObjective testing, but it is worth considering if we could use the palace mechanic + AIObjective spice resource rather than the corporation mechanic.
I have no strong opinion either way.

I think we're in danger of having too many patch changes floating around; I suggest you release a patch as above, then I will try a clean mod reinstall followed by Deliverator's tech tree change patch, and then I will look at grafting some economy changes and further tech tree changes onto that.
 
Redirected from incremental patch thread. Regarding patch 1.7.2.2:

Will also have to change a few other tiles. Water economy should give windtrap water, adaptive agrictulture should give windtrap commerce.

If that makes more sense from a gameplay perspective then fine; my rationale was that commerce from water seems good thematically for Water Economy and I thought giving the extra water later would not be too bad.

Ahriman said:
Something weird; Arrakis Transformation requires prescience? That one is a bit of a stretch.

Coming up with a logical place for Arrakis Transformation to sit is a headache. You suggested putting it after Refining Techniques, but that really doesn't seem like a good fit...

Ahriman said:
Prescience is very sparse for a fairly Required tech. How about Prescience also gives +1 sight radius across desert tiles?

That is a possibility. Perhaps there is some other benefit we can think up.

Also, Moisture Seals at Desert Plantation doesn't make too much sense. Perhaps we could move it to Stillsuits and then move Factory to somewhere else like Energy Sources?

davidlallen said:
You may know, but the FLAVOR_RELIGION replacements in techinfos.xml in 1.7.2.1 have been removed from 1.7.2.2.

Yes, I effectively merged this out just to make my life easier. I was aware that Ahriman was intending to review them again in any case.

davidlallen said:
Also, one fun place to look for undefined symbols is in python. Some errors can occur if you remove a building, but it is used in python. It may be that you check DuneWars.py, but I also recommend to check Revolutions/RevDefs.py. It refers to a whole bunch of units, buildings, and techs. In particular, the weather scanner is now undefined, but still used in revdefs. Yet another way in which using revdcm makes maintenance slightly more complicated.

Good point. I usually scan the Python directory as well as the XML when doing tag renamings, but I will also start doing that when I remove tags too.

Also david, there a few bits of Ahriman's tech tree design that look like they will need some Python work. I can try and figure these out, but I'm sure that at least the first two would be fairly quick for you:

Spoiler :
Convention breached! World wonder. Requires House Atomics tech. 1200 hammers.
Allows all players to build Atomics units. These are ICBMs. Provides -100% foreign trade routes in all cities. When built, creates 3 Atomics units in the capital city by event).

Monitor Projects, Once all projects completed, Event triggers that creates Monitor Warship in capital.
Add "Monitor Warship" unit. Cannot be built, comes into play (in capital) only when all 5 Monitor projects have been built. Strength 50, thopter class, 1 first strike, 6 moves, blitz. Huge unit icon, some kind of warship.

Nullentrophy sphere. Requires advanced materials tech. Requires Tleilaxu Zensufism state religion. Next unit created in the city gains the immortality promotion (a la FFH)?

Perhaps we should complete the XML so that all the buildings and units are in place before worrying about the Python?
 
If that makes more sense from a gameplay perspective then fine; my rationale was that commerce from water seems good thematically for Water Economy and I thought giving the extra water later would not be too bad.

My argument was this; we used to have the first +1 water from windtraps at Arrakis habitation, ~ 3 tiers in. Moving it to tier5 will slow the game, but not critically. Moving it to ~tier7 will I think slow them *too* much. [Keep in mind; it used to be +2 water from tier0]
Also, I think it should be roughly similar level to the first boost for wells, which get a tier4 boost along the engineering path.

Perhaps we could move it to Stillsuits
I like this a lot.

then move Factory to somewhere else like Energy Sources?
Maybe, that tech has a lot at it already. I'll think about where a better place might be.

Yes, I effectively merged this out just to make my life easier.
Ah, ok, so just for ease of use. I can replace.

here a few bits of Ahriman's tech tree design that look like they will need some Python work
The Convention Breached! and Nullentropy Spheres are very much open to debate. Nullentropy Spheres should be considered simultaneously with a redesign for Axolotl Tanks.
I think the Monitor is fairly straightforward.
 
For the Factory building, we could rename Desert Rovers to Light Manufacturing/Assembly and put it there maybe. I noticed that tech is completely empty for the Fremen.

Nullentropy Spheres should be considered simultaneously with a redesign for Axolotl Tanks.

Perhaps it's worth collecting the ideas from around post 49 in this thread and resurrecting (pun!) the Tleilaxu mechanics thread.

Convention breached! World wonder. Requires House Atomics tech. 1200 hammers.
Allows all players to build Atomics units. These are ICBMs. Provides -100% foreign trade routes in all cities. When built, creates 3 Atomics units in the capital city by event).

What I think is interesting about this is how the AI will react to being given the free Atomics. Are there leaderhead weights determining how likely leaders are to actually use nukes?
 
For the Factory building, we could rename Desert Rovers to Light Manufacturing

Seems workable.

What I think is interesting about this is how the AI will react to being given the free Atomics. Are there leaderhead weights determining how likely leaders are to actually use nukes?

If there are, they don't vary across leaders here. I haven't used nukes enough in vanilla civ4 to note any particular difference in behavior. I do remember in civ3 that some leaders seemed relatively unwilling to be the *first* to use a nuke.

I'm guessing though that anyone at war would be willing to use nukes.

resurrecting (pun!) the Tleilaxu mechanics thread.
Seems wise.
 
This modcomp got me thinking about the possibilities of religion-specific promotions as a way to further differentiate them and add flavour. All the example promos in the modcomp are XML only which is a plus. For example, we could have a late game promotion for Mahdi that adds withdraw chance, or a super-healing promotion for the Tleilaxu.
 
Find attached the tech-costs.csv generated from the 1.7.3 tech tree. See here for an explanation of the columns.

The most obvious issue is that the Eras are a bit messed up, mostly because all the new techs have era set to Classical (by my lazy copy-and-pasting). The eras that techs are assigned to can be changed in the XML file CIV4TechInfos.xml.

We probably need to review the costs too. There are pretty lumpy and bumpy in places, if you sort by different columns.
 
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