[Guide] Resource Gathering (beta)

zbgayumn · Jul 12, 2011

Minor Annoyance said:
I've noticed there is usually a big difference in the buy and sell price of great people. It seems that they would have to be very low prise and they extremely expensive for you to make a profit.

That big difference in the buy and sell prices is annoying because it makes it difficult to switch your Great People out for different types. I suppose that's the point, though.

As for buying GPs outright, the formula I posted last time tells you how long it would take to make enough resources to sell back into the market to break even. In my current game, food and science prices have been much higher than "normal". 900-1400 for food, 500-800 for science. Meanwhile, GPs have been around the "normal" price of 7000-11000. For that kind of ratio, you can buy a Great Prophet and have it pay off within 2-3 days. So for the first 3-4 days, you can be pretty confident that it's a good investment. After that you have to start guessing when the game is going to end.

Boozie · Jul 12, 2011

I would love some collaboration on harvest values and how they are calculated. In particular capping out pastures vs 5 less food for a closer house and/or granary. That combined with happiness versus travel pathing.

Travel distances for workers use all three phases of House Resource Benefit Building House. correct?

punctuator · Jul 12, 2011

Boozie said:
I would love some collaboration on harvest values and how they are calculated. In particular capping out pastures vs 5 less food for a closer house and/or granary. That combined with happiness versus travel pathing.

Yep, I wish I had more information on this to share. My impression is:

40-50 food Orchard with House and Granary as close as possible is always going to be your strongest farmer (assuming equal happiness), but in general is very expensive in Hammers, since you typically need 1 Ginormous Granary per Orchard.

A 45 food Pasture with a longer (but still minimized) travel time is competitive with a 30/35 Orchard with minimum travel distance.

However I can't tell you precisely what the formula is.

ecki2k · Jul 12, 2011

Great roundup, thank you very much.

Instantly noticed possibilities to tweak my stuff but can´t login... hope this gets fixed soon :-/

Thx again, very helpful.

Boozie · Jul 12, 2011

A great example is the photo in the OP involving the granary behind the line of houses. If you moved the granary in between two houses, any house separated on its own would lose their neighbor happiness bonus but have to walk less.

I wouldn't mind starting a google document where people can help input various scenarios involving food count, travel distances, happiness, and result.

Do we know if all of the three steps involved with worker travel are weighted equally? Are diagonals 1 move as usual in Civ games?

punctuator · Jul 12, 2011

I don't imagine that any leg of the journey is weighted more heavily; it seems to me that total travel distance is what matters. As for diagonals, this information is covered in the guide.

Creepy Old Man · Jul 12, 2011

To what extent do roads effect travel distances? I know that they do to some extent. My farm setup has the houses on one side of a long narrow sea and the pastures on the other side. My productivity went up when I built bridges across the sea. But the question I have is, should I tear down my granary, build a road under it, and then rebuild the granary?

punctuator · Jul 12, 2011

This is an interesting question that I want to experiment with. I recently noticed that my own Farmers who had to cross water were preferring a route that took a bridge rather than one that didn't. However, when I built them more bridges, it did change their route, but it didn't actually seem to improve their productivity. I'd like more information about roads. I initially thought they only purpose they served was to increase the value of Worker Resources, but I now think this might not be entirely true.

Boozie · Jul 12, 2011

punctuator said:
I don't imagine that any leg of the journey is weighted more heavily; it seems to me that total travel distance is what matters. As for diagonals, this information is covered in the guide.

Whoops you are right. Do you think the triangular routes are as you have them drawn where they can path at non 45 degree angles? Meaning if you go over 2 and up 1 can you consider the distance sqrt(2^2+1^2) or do you have to view it as sqrt(1^1+1^1)+1?

punctuator · Jul 12, 2011

Don't know, as I say. I assume it counts per tile, especially since the highlighted paths when you mouse over a house seem to go tile-by-tile. So my assumption is that if moving to an adjacent tile increases trip length by "1 square," moving to a diagonally adjacent tile increases trip length by "1.5 squares." But as I say in the guide, I don't know what the formula is. I just know that diagonal movement costs more than 1 square and less than 2.

Creepy Old Man · Jul 12, 2011

In the discussions of happiness, it should be noticed that there is no level above ecstatic. Thus, a house surrounded by four happiness tiles is no better than one with only three. So a "perfect" house can have another house on one side, water/trees on two sides, and whatever else you want on the fourth.

I don't know what happens when you get +/- happiness from civics or wonders.

Glinda · Jul 12, 2011

There's some discussion about whether the game notices extra-ecstatic citizens, actually. It needs testing; do they get a production bonus?

punctuator · Jul 12, 2011

Just did a quick test. I had an ecstatic Farmer with 46 productivity and 1 neighbor. Moved the neighbor. Still ecstatic, but productivity dropped to 42. Will edit guide to reflect this observation, good catch.

Spoiler :

Would put these pics in the main guide, but I'm running up against image limits (apparently all those little icons count) and I think it's easy enough to understand without an illustration.

LarryCiv · Jul 12, 2011

What happens after your 16th citizen? I read about doubling up houses, and I'm at 15, so I want to prepare for it.

Also, I'm at 15 pop in early atomic age, should I go hard on food the rest of the way to try to reach 32?

Edit: Nevermind, I RTM. I painfully rebuilt my city from scratch to optimize the first citizen. Really wish there was a better way to do this.

Glinda · Jul 13, 2011

LarryCiv said:
What happens after your 16th citizen? I read about doubling up houses, and I'm at 15, so I want to prepare for it.

Also, I'm at 15 pop in early atomic age, should I go hard on food the rest of the way to try to reach 32?

Edit: Nevermind, I RTM. I painfully rebuilt my city from scratch to optimize the first citizen. Really wish there was a better way to do this.

I have only once seen someone get 24, and really, in the end game, you are far better off getting your guys to produce hammers or science, or sell your food than bothering with trying to get max population.

Panda_Power · Jul 13, 2011

punctuator said:

What else do you have next to your farms to get 46 food? I can't seem to get anywhere near those high levels even building next to water & forests and having a ginormous granary!

LarryCiv · Jul 13, 2011

Glinda said:
I have only once seen someone get 24, and really, in the end game, you are far better off getting your guys to produce hammers or science, or sell your food than bothering with trying to get max population.

Ya, in this game it seems like food is undervalued, so I'm just selling it and buying tech, though still trying to grow. I guess I'll aim for 24 for the achievement.

Also at this point, I have 300k gold, while the rest of the world combines for about 800k gold. I also have about 7000 hammers saved up, with a relatively massive army for a relatively good civ (won't likely be attacked soon) so I almost want to say I have more money than I know what to do with..

LarryCiv · Jul 13, 2011

Panda_Power said:
What else do you have next to your farms to get 46 food? I can't seem to get anywhere near those high levels even building next to water & forests and having a ginormous granary!

Tons of great people? I have a 61 food with an 45 food orchard, but I also have 26 great prophets..

Panda_Power · Jul 13, 2011

LarryCiv said:
Tons of great people? I have a 61 food with an 45 food orchard, but I also have 26 great prophets..

But don't you need to use the prophets to build wonders etc? Or are you producing a ton of culture too and have excess great people?

I'm really playing this game all wrong!

LarryCiv · Jul 13, 2011

Panda_Power said:
But don't you need to use the prophets to build wonders etc? Or are you producing a ton of culture too and have excess great people?

I'm really playing this game all wrong!

I produce a lot of cash (from food) so I just buy great persons from the market place.

[Guide] Resource Gathering (beta)

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