As They Stand Up

Pontiuth Pilate

Republican Jesus!
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We fall down...

2 senators seek answers on murdered troops By SCOTT LINDLAW, Associated Press WriterFri Jun 23, 2:09 AM ET


Two Democratic senators said Thursday they would press the Pentagon for answers in the case of two California National Guardsmen killed by Iraqi officers they were training.
They also said they want to know why the Army waited nine months to tell the men's families after it had determined that Spc. Patrick R. McCaffrey, 34, and 2nd Lt. Andre D. Tyson, 33, were killed in an ambush.
"Was there a cover-up of this incident?" Sen. Barbara Boxer (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., asked.
Boxer and Carl Levin, D-Mich., said they would also ask the Defense Department to explain why "nothing was done" after McCaffrey told his superiors that Iraqi forces previously had fired on the American unit.
"Are there other incidents where American troops are being shot at by the Iraqi forces they are training?" Boxer asked.
Democratic senators do not have the broad subpoena authority that Republicans, who control Congress, do, although Levin is the top-ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee. The senators entered their request for answers into the Senate record.
The U.S. military has said one Iraqi suspect is in custody, while the other one is believed to be dead, though it has not given any details.
An Army officer who served in the same unit as Tyson and McCaffrey in Iraq said Thursday that military commanders knew militiamen had infiltrated the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps unit they were training long before the Iraqis killed the two Americans.
"We were told that before we went over there," the officer told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because a criminal investigation remains open in the case. "They told us half these guys were insurgents. We knew it."
After the attack that killed McCaffrey and Tyson, the Army unit and the allied civil defense unit conducted a head count and found that two men were missing, the officer said.
The Army placed the men's houses under surveillance for weeks, the officer said. Eventually, U.S. Special Forces began using more aggressive measures to track down the gunmen.
 
Wow that would be an awesome plot for a movie!
Our cause is righteous and just. Tonight we shall strike the amjericans like lightning from a cloudless sky! Allahu Akbar!
 
Just another example of more trouble in Iraq, so nothing new by those standards. This whole thing has become one depressing mess. Too bad we ever went.
 
Support our troops!

Freedom isn't free!

God bless America!

By publishing this story, you are helping the terrorists win. Shame on you.
 
Don't worry, a BushBot will be along soon to tell me how this actually means we're winning.
Moderator Action: Don't turn your own thread into a troll/flamefest.
 
Cheezy the Wiz said:
oh dont worry an anti-bushbot has already told us how we're losing... again

Well, if crap like this is happening, we kinda are dude.
 
If Iraq becomes a Democracy, we win.

If the insurgents re-install a dictatorship, we lose.

So we're definitely in the Win column.
 
BasketCase said:
If Iraq becomes a Democracy, we win.

If the insurgents re-install a dictatorship, we lose.

So we're definitely in the Win column.

Ironically winning would mean losing in very short order.

Democracy=Two wolfs and a sheep deciding on dinner.
 
If Iraq becomes a Democracy, we win.

If the insurgents re-install a dictatorship, we lose.

So we're definitely in the Win column.
You still cannot deny the fact that Iraqi Civil Defense Corps is the protector of the rights of the people under the democracy. If it is being compromised, the democracy will obviously be in danger. We may be winning by your standards, but that doesn't mean that this can be ignored or that this is inconcsequential if the democracy is still there in principle.

I personally think your basis for a loss is too extreme. The insurgents are not a completely coordinated group. They would not be the type to set up their own centralized government. To me, they win and we lose if they succeed in denying the rights the Iraqi people have under their democracy.
 
BasketCase said:
If Iraq becomes a Democracy, we win.

If the insurgents re-install a dictatorship, we lose.

So we're definitely in the Win column.

A democracy in which Shi'ite religious law trumps human rights?

In which the national army is a cover for militia groups?

In which a week does not go by without another carbombing?

Keep on deluding yourself.
 
BasketCase said:
If Iraq becomes a Democracy, we win.

If the insurgents re-install a dictatorship, we lose.

So we're definitely in the Win column.

Q What happens if the democracy we set up collapese within two years ? (ala Suth vietname and vietnamisation?)

Q what happens if Iraq breaks into civil war ?

Q What happens if iraq becomes a Theocracy ? (Say somewhere between Iranian style and Saudi style ?)

Q What happens if Iraq partitiions into three parts and only the Kurds choose a democratic governement ?
 
On topic:

It is known that the Iraq "interior" forces have been inifiltrated by the insurgents mainly the nationialist factions and not the fundamential elements. As such there have been stories of Kidnaping" government death squads, selective killing, etc

When you have interior ministary troops literally freeing captured insurgents and overuling local police shows how serious this problem is.
 
Cheezy the Wiz said:
and it's an attitude like that that'll ensure we do

Hah, nice try, but i'm just an insignificant kid in the middle of Oregon. What the hell does my attitude have to do with winning this stupid war? Better yet, why is this war worth winning?
 
tomsnowman123 said:
Unfortunately, attitude doesn't prevent the crap from happening.

Very nicely said.
 
I think Dawgphood001 is a terrorist, just look at his avatar. You cannot hide in Oregon forever!

Personally, I think this just goes to show how little we have accomplished with this war. There is still too much going on to tell if it will stabalize, which I doubt it will. Or at least if it does, watch out, that means sh*t is about to hit the fan.

This article shows a key thing. Our national intelligence screwed up again, or undervalues it's civilians. You can take note of it, or ignore it and keep your blinders on. I find it disrespectful towards the families that they delayed telling them for that long. There is no excuse for that.
 
King Flevance said:
I think Dawgphood001 is a terrorist, just look at his avatar. You cannot hide in Oregon forever!

Ahh, dang. I've been figured out! I guess I shouldn't have wantonly blown my cover and all.:blush:

But I can hide in Oregon forever! You know not the depths of my plans.
 
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