QSC-c1 "Irritated Mao" game progress.

cracker

Gil Favor's Sidekick
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Ok, let's kick things off by making sure we understand the play format and the general rules.

This type of a succession game is open for people to shadow along at any point in time and basically everyone plays along sort of like an inch worm. We all play the game in 10 turn increments and then upload 3 of these ten turn blocks to compare where we are.

All the formal spaces in this game are already filled by preregistration.

(registration and players roster can be found in this previous thread.)

For the next ten turns, then each player can keep playing from their own previous 10 turn save or you can pick the save of any other player and continue on. You are not locked in to continuing with your game the way you already played it unless you want to do that.

I would not recommend jumping ship every time you have a chance, because it may help for you to play 20 or 30 turns in your own style just using anything new that you may learn. Then you may be able to compare bigger differences between two different approaches.

Different objectives and strategies may force you to choose different approaches to the same game and that would make comparison tougher. The common game approach for this Quick Start Challenge Game will be to go for the quickest possible Space Ship victory. To do this we will need to maximize our longterm science research pace and expand the size and power of our civilization as quickly as possible.

This is a Monarch level game with a very high land mass and 11 AI civs

We will also expect to encounter contact with the other civilizations on our map and will probably need to engage in a war or two to make sure we have enough territory and resources to dominate the game and achieve our major objective of winning the Space Race.

A key factor in the game will be that our Chinese Civ has the double speed industrious workers so we can throw down improvements very quickly.

We can also look at the minimap position and make a very strong guess as to the direction we will find our first neighbors in if we begin exploring.

If you have not played a succession game or team game before, you may need to make sure you know how to access a text editor from within the Civ game when you play so you can take some notes to compare with others. To do this, you need to open your choice of a word processor or spreadsheet program before you start the civ3 game. Then you can use the alt-tab keys on your keyboard to just step down from the game and access your text file to make any special notes you might like to make as you play. To get back into the game you just select CivIII from the taskbar or use alt-tab again.

Good luck to all and the first turns should be played up until the end of all moves for 3550bc and then saved. Save the files using the naming format of q1_xxxxxx_yyyyyy.sav where xxxxx is you simplified CFC handle and yyyyyy is the year in a format of example "bc3550". For example, my game first game should be Q1_cracker_bc3550.sav and this way when we upload them or download them there should be no naming conflicts. (do not increment the 1 in the filename as Q1 is the number of this entire game)

Try not to use the direct file attachment feature because it slows down the forums database more than using the easy upload feature, but initially both methods will work.

When you have played your turns, upload a concise summary of your turns plous the save files for the next three savepoints on the timeline. Then you are free to download any other save files from other players and look at the games to compare postions and get ready for discussion. If we all follow the naming conventions we should be able to download files to a single folder and they will still sort by player and chronologically.

Good luck to all, and I will look to the next step.
 
Before you can download and begin to play the game you must carefully read this posting to better understand how the game is setup.

You must also download a minor zip file to set up some special unit conditions that use standard graphics files that already exist in you Civ3 units folder.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/crackers_QSC1_units.zip

download this zip file (only about 7kb) and extract its contents into your Civilization III/art/units/ folder to setup three special units subfolders and .ini files that should have no effect on any other gameplay. The zip file also includes a text copy of the following information.

------
Understanding the Map Configuration

The map for this game is randomly generated using the standard internal civ3 fractal algorithm but the program has been cracked to access the coefficients over a wider range of settings. In the default game, the program code allows you to select water coverage to land mass ratios of 60%, 70%, and 80%. The 80% setting would give you the maximum number of water tiles and the smallest possible landmasses. On a default standard map size of 100 x 100 tiles, the 60% water setting would generate approximately 2000 tiles of land for 8 civilizations. On a default large map the same 60% water setting would generate approximately 3920 tiles of land for 12 civilizations.

Understanding this landmass to map size ratio is important because our map for this QSC game is produced with a 40% water coverage ratio to produce approximately 1900 land tiles on what would normally just be a small sized map. Because the land area is increased by 50%, the number of civilizations in the game is increased from the six that we would normally see for 1280 land tiles up to 11 civilizations for the increased available land space.

The OCN or Optimal cities number is also increased proportionately from 14 up to 22. This increase allows the size of your empire to be somewhat larger with corruption effects being proportionately in between what you would see under default conditions of standard or large sizes. The increased OCN number also encourages the AI civilizations to continue expanding for a proportionately longer period of time. If the OCN were not increased, the AI players would just stop building cities and sit there even though vast tracts of land might be unclaimed.

The map size tech research rate is set to 120 to correspond to the tech research pace of a standard sized map even though this map is squeezed to fit inside a small outline.

The effects of these modifications should be that the first two ages of the game will play almost exactly like a Monarch level contest on a standard size Pangaea style map with ten potential contacts in the game instead of the usual seven. Every civ has plenty of land space but they should be whipped into a foaming frenzy by the map conditions and the tech pace.

-----------------------------

AI Unit Modifications:

There are no modifications to units in the game that will affect any play elements in the Ancient or Medieval ages.

To give the late game some punch and potential excitement, even for players who already have their sights locked in on the early Space Race victory, there are two units added to the game that are only available to the AI players.

The Hired Savage – is a 3/2/2 demon possessed Jag Warrior clone that the AI players can begin building after they discover Magnetism. This will correspond to the dawning of the industrial age and AI’s will be able to build these savages for 9 shields each. Technically I wanted this unit to provide simulation for an extra level of barbarian activity.

The Irritator – is a 4/4/1 samurai type unit that becomes available with the discovery of Medicine. The killer factor with this unit is that it only costs 18 shields for the AIs to produce and can be used offensively or defensively. There is no significance to the tech assignment with medicine except that the timing of the advent of the unit is designed to flow in the early industrial age. The Samurai unit graphics where chosen because they look cool in all the different colors and the Samurai will laugh at you when he wins a battle.

(The civilization of Japan and Aztecs are disabled and not in the game at all, so you can view these units as cheap mercenaries available to all the AI players from their respective countries who are far away and not participating directly in the game.)

Depending on the game conditions at the time these units become available, the AI civs may or may not build any of the units to harass you. Under some conditions, the AI will build hundreds of these units and fling them at you like the Zulus at Rourke’s drift.

-------------------

Human Player Units

The player gets two unit modifications to use to diversify the late game experience if you survive that far.

The Migrant – with the discovery of Medicine you will gain the ability to quickly transfer population around from town to town by using this “Migrant” unit. The unit only costs you 10 shields but will extract 2 pop points from the source town and add 2 pop points to the receiving town. This unit is technically available to the AI players but there are no strategy elements that will activate this unit in the AI build patterns so you should not see them at all from your enemies. The Migrant uses the Ancient Age Leader graphic but it comes two ages later in the game so hopefully this will not confuse anyone. In the build Queue, the CIV3 game is hard coded to display the leader graphic Industrial or Modern era even though the ancient bald Moses guy will be what emerges on your map for you to move around if you choose to use this unit.

The Helicopter – This unit is relatively worthless in the standard game but has been modified to allow the helicopter to hover over open terrain anywhere on the map. The helicopter has an open air operational range of 5 tiles plus a ground hover movement range of two moves with the “treat all terrain as roads” ability. The effect is to give the helicopter the ability to move 5 land tiles in any direction and then to airdrop its cargo of passengers forward up to 5 tiles even across water barriers all in the same move. The passenger capacity is increased to 3 units per helicopter unit and the helicopters have the ability to deliver combat foot units, artillery, workers, and settlers. Helicopters also have the Recon mission ability as a part of the helicopter’s standard feature set so you should not forget that this option is available if play progresses to that point in the game. Again these abilities are not recognizable to the AI players even though the units will be equally available to everyone. This is basically just something to play with to add spice in the late game or to give you a chance to disable their space or UN victory if they still happen to be ahead in techs at that point in time.
 
Remember that this game is being played in the Quick Start Challenge format and that the declared victory objective is earliest space race victory.

Game Configuration Details

We are: the Chinese
Map Size: (see discussion above) approximately 1900 land tiles 40% water
Barbarians: Restless
Opponents: 10 civs (does not include Japan or Aztecs)
Map Character: Huge continents normal climate 4 billion years old



You must be playing V1.29 Civ3 in order for the save files to be compatible. Here is the starting game file at 4000bc:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Q1_as_Mao_BC4000.sav

The timeline schedule of every save point that you must hit is outlined in the original registration thread, but the first three save points you should target will be:

3550bc (turn 10)
3050bc (turn 20)
2590bc (turn 30)

If you are a registered alternate player, please try to hit the three save points and upload your files on the time schedule just in case any of the primary players miss the time deadline and a slot becomes available for you to jump right in.

hopefully all the registered players will be able to play and upload their save files on the outlined scheduled and we will clip rght along.

I hope everyone enjoys the game.
 
What level of reporting do you want for the turns.
Any level of reporting WILL result in cross-game contamination.
 
I have completed my first 3 rounds but will wait for an answer to Lee's question. IMO a this is a competition game but I think that it is also a place for discussion and theories to be played and compared not just a bottom line I am better than xxx or yyy. I am interested in really seeing where the lines are in terms of effective trading, city placement, tech choices etc.

All these thing discussion will still happen even when a player happens to see the location of the Babylonians and can get there faster. Lee is right there will be some "spoilers" in this format there has to be. It is those very spoilers that spur discussion and help the players that don't regularly kill emperor or monarch (ie me).

If a player uses foreknowledge soully(sp) to boost score then I think they miss the point of this particular game. Even if all the entries for a particular round aren't posted until the same deadline there will be spoilers that will clearly effect the next round, in this game in particular because of sooo many civs to find. That should'nt change to overall objective. Make us all better early round players at whatever level and make for some good discussion.

Lee's point is a good one but I think this game and this group of players is beyond using foreknowledge to "rank" ourselves. I think all of us can look at the baker's dozen of players and give a list of who will be leading throughout, who will be in the middle and who will come in at the tail end. Excellent players will all do well, that is why they are excellent. The Regent/Monarch crew (ie Me) will fill in the middle to tail end and hopefully if nothing else at least show improvement over the course of this game. All the while being able to compare themselves with the best, not in score but in theory and action.

Hotrod
 
I think the issue of how detailed of a set of reports to post should be balanced by timing.

It is tough to look at games in this format as a competition as much as they really are an opportunity to try and play a very distinct strategy and compare how it works to other options.

In a perfect world, the games would include 12 clones of players all that the same skill level and then we could break down the results as being the best possible play sequences to fit a strategy. Unfortunately we are all human and make mistakes of choices as well as just simple hand/eye/braincramp type booboos.

The save files will in some ways make all the reports more of a moot point, but I think we can look to the handyandy game as a good example. You should probably take good notes to support discussion as these things start to heat up in the later rounds. But do not necessarily post excrutiatingly detailed turns reports in the early going. Jaxom's early turns reports on page 2 of the handyandy thread provide some good examples of the level of detail that help keep people up to speed with how you are doing without giving out the formula.

I have already played up to turn 60 and know this is an interesting map.

Crosspollution is hard to avoid because if I go west and you go east and then we look at each other's position we basically get the benefits of both approaches. The key is to try an focus on the big picture of the sweeping movement decisions as well as the major strategy choices that should dominate the overall result.

If we look back at the handyandy game, there was great value in playing those opening moves in an open and declared manner. It is sort of like allowing everyone to watch your hands as they pass over the keyboard so that they can mimic the game progression.

Ultimately the objective is to have fun and push ourselves to the limits of our skills while leading a new echelon of players to rise up in basic skills. It is no fun to play in a multiplayer game where all the victims (AI and Human alike) are just barely above the functional level.

So, I would play my turns and save my saves and then upload them as time permits. There are a lot of contacts in this game and if someone is dilligent in the use of the legal tools in the game, it is possible to stay out in front of the cross contamination somewhat. An example would be that knowing where the babs are and getting to the babs would be two very different things.

The QSC scoring is really just to help rate the power of the positions in the game and much of this is impacted in the short run by various RNG results.

(the least powerful player gets the same number of oreos as the most powerful player.) ;)
 
4000 BC - The first decision, settler where we are? I don’t see a reason not to, so the capital is built.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Q1-LKENDTER-3550BC.zip
3450 BC - OK, time to pop the risky hut - What do you know, we get CB.
The other hut gives maps :crazyeye:
3200 BC - Unreal, 3rd goody hut and we get Bronze Working.
3050 BC - (I) Next research project is writing.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Q1-LKENDTER-3050BC.zip
3000 BC - Another goody hut to pop, free tech bonanza continues with the wheel.
(I) We don’t even rate on the most powerful nations chart.
2850 BC - Shanghai is formed, another food heavy city.
First contact with England, and I can tell expansionist - the are ahead of me despite my free tech.
2750 BC - England must have other contacts, as they have gained 2 more techs in just 2 turns.
2590 BC - The turn of first contact, America and the Zulu. We have 3 expansionist civs, all ahead with tech.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Q1-LKENDTER-2590BC.zip
 
Q1 Hotrod

4000 BC (1): Move worker to bonus grass and to check out the south. Decide to build in current spot, wonder how many will move away from the mountains. Found Beijing, good choice wheat many bonus grass, and cattle. Start warrior, start research on the wheel. Reason, it is the only tech I don't think any AI will pick first therefore should be very tradeable, due in 14 at 90%. Go away from my norm of pottery because of the food bonuses I won't be building an early granary.

3950 BC (2): Worker starts mine on bg.

3900 BC (3):

3850 BC (4):

3800 BC (5):

3750 BC (6): Build warrior start another. Heading NE.

3700 BC (7): hut to the NE.

3650 BC (8): Pass the hut for now, can't risk getting barbs with my only worker near by.

3600 BC (9):

3550 BC (10): Build warrior start another. He will head NW. Warrior 1 finds some coastline to the NE.





3500 BC (11): Bejing expands, change to settler. Grow and produce the settler in 7 turns.

3450 BC (12): See spice to the NE. Wheel due next turn, reduce research.

3400 BC (13): Learn wheel start HBR. Hoping for some great trades :). :smoke: maybe.

3350 BC (14): Start irrigation of the cattle.

3300 BC (15): There is a hut to the NW, some more spice and cattle.

3250 BC (16): Pop hut and get maps :(. At least it wasn't barbs. Will send warrior to the west.

3200 BC (17):

3150 BC (18): Settler continues on toward city spot 2 near the Cattle.

3100 BC (19): Contact Zulu warrior, they have CB, BW, and Pottery but don't need Wheel :(.

3050 BC (20): movements continue.



3000 BC (21): Found Shanghi, start warrior. See furs to the West.

2950 BC (22): more movement. sending worker to connect with Shanghi.

2900 BC (23): Continue movement.

2850 BC (24): Contact English, they have writing, HBR, CB, BW, Aphabet, pottery and contact with indians.

2800 BC (25): Learn HBR, start CB. Trade Zulus, HBR for Bronze, pottery, Ceremonial burial and 10 gold. Lizzy will trade mystism for contact with zulus but want mucho gold for alphabet. I decline for now. Current research Iron Working.

2750 BC (26): Shanghi builds warrior starts another.

2710 BC (27): Bejing builds settler starts another.

2670 BC (28): Continue movement, Shanghi warrior is moving to check out the SE.

2630 BC (29): Continue to move, still have the hut untouched. will leave it until the military is built up. Zulus already have myst, and IW. England has those plus aphlabet and Writing.

2590 BC (30): Settler 3 arrives at the next city site. I am hoping the early settlers will help me catch up in tech.







3550BC
3050BC
2590BC
 
Turns 1 to 10.

  1. 4000BC The starting position looks good enough and is taken.
    The worker goes to work on the bonus grassland.
    A couple of warriors are ordered.
    Research set to Pottery at maximum pace.
  2. 3950BC ...
  3. 3900BC ...
  4. 3850BC ...
  5. 3800BC First warrior is trained and goes E. Another one is ordered.
  6. 3750BC ...
  7. 3700BC The Yayoi tribe taught us Bronze Working. :jump:
    The worker moves to the next bonus grassland.
  8. 3650BC We discover Pottery, Alphabet started at maximum pace.
  9. 3600BC Second warrior trained, he goes W. Another one is ordered.
  10. 3550BC ...
    [/list=1]


    Turns 11 to 20.
    1. 3500BC ...
    2. 3450BC Third warrior trained, he goes N. A granary is ordered.
    3. 3400BC The worker moves E of Beijing to irrigate.
    4. 3350BC ...
    5. 3300BC ...
    6. 3250BC ...
    7. 3200BC ...
    8. 3150BC The North scout awakens angry barbarians. :(
      The Tartar tribe taught us Ceremonial Burial. :jump:
    9. 3100BC We discover Alphabet, Writing started at maximum pace.
      The north scout dies after defeating one barbarian. :(
      The East scout turns around to face the barbarians.
    10. 3050BC ...
      [/list=1]


      Turns 21 to 30.
      1. 3000BC ...
      2. 2950BC Beijing grows to size 3, luxury raised to 10%.
      3. 2900BC A scout beats a barbarian and promotes.
      4. 2850BC The granary completes, a warrior is ordered.
      5. 2800BC ...
      6. 2750BC A new warrior is trained, just in time as the last barbarian is now at the gates. A settler is ordered.
      7. 2710BC More barbarians are disturbed. :(
      8. 2670BC My warrior dispatch all 3 barbarians and is now an elite. :goodjob:
      9. 2630BC ...
      10. 2590BC ...
        [/list=1]

        Here are the save games:
        3550 BC
        3050 BC
        2590 BC
 
Originally posted by cracker
I have already played up to turn 60 and know this is an interesting map.


Well "interesting" is one way to describe it ;)
I have played close to 100, and know how insane the map is since I have world wide contact.

The tech pace feels more emperor, if not deity. I can't remember the last time that a "monarchy" game had me as a Republic as early as I got it. I very much understand the not caught up in tech comment. I have at least tech parity with all civs, and am I slightly ahead of the rest. However, for the time of the game, I can’t believe that I have several middle ages techs.
 
Well, if it is ok with you guys, I want to start my first 10 turns over.

After about 8 moves I was reminded of Dorothy's saying to Toto (in the Wizard of Oz,) "My! Things come and go so quickly around here!"

Maybe I'm just not used to the Monarch level yet. :(:)

Anyway, before the end of my 10 turns, my worker was doing fine, and I sent my warrior happily eastward toward a hut (hoping for a new tech.) Instead when the hut was popped, out came three angry barbarians who destroyed my warrior, razed my city, and killed my worker. All in a flash - just like that. :cry:

So I am going to start over this time and hope to do better. I won't make a habit of starting over.

stwils
 
Originally posted by stwils
Well, if it is ok with you guys, I want to start my first 10 turns over.

After about 8 moves I was reminded of Dorothy's saying to Toto (in the Wizard of Oz,) "My! Things come and go so quickly around here!"

Maybe I'm just not used to the Monarch level yet. :(:)

Anyway, before the end of my 10 turns, my worker was doing fine, and I sent my warrior happily eastward toward a hut (hoping for a new tech.) Instead when the hut was popped, out came three angry barbarians who destroyed my warrior, razed my city, and killed my worker. All in a flash - just like that. :cry:

So I am going to start over this time and hope to do better. I won't make a habit of starting over.

stwils


Cracker has to make that decision. I think I know the hut you tried, as I popped the same one. However, I made sure my worker was OUT-OF-RANGE before trying. I very much timed the popping of the hut, and the position of the worker before trying for fear of just that.
 
I didn't even save the game. :o I can recreate those first turns if I should, but I'd prefer to try once more.

Never fear, guys. There is no way I'm going to win and get to the space ship first. :lol:

But I hope to learn.

stwils
 
So as we number our turns we start with 4000BC. Is that considered turn #1?

And when we get to turn #10 (hopefullly 3550BC) we just save it and don't press "Enter." Is that right?

Just trying to get the basics.

stwils
 
stwils,

Go ahead and play again, just document what you did (as you have honestly done.)

Remember that the general rules let you switch over at any point in the game and pick up play by using the save file of another player. All you need to do is make sure that your timeline or turns report makes it clear that the new turns begin with the starting turn borrowed from another player. So starting over in the first round could not really cripple you in the process.

Don't do this switching horses thing too early, but it is OK and should be viewed as a compliment by the player whose position you chose if you do decide to switch.

Betcha you won't ignore the discussion of the risks of popping a hut when your worker is right there and your only town is undefended, ever again. ;)

Oh, and here is a zip file with a MSword outline for a QSC timeline with the year numbers and save turns highlighted in case it may help you.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/timeline1.zip

You want to make sure you have the "wait at the end of the turn" preference turned on and then make all the moves that you want to have counted for that turn before saving the compressed save file. Once you confirm the save file for the timepoint is in place, then you can play on to the next timepoint without stopping if you are in the groove and so inclined.
 
Just a hint. Defending the town by standing in the town is not necessarily your best choice in many games. ;)

All glory is purchased at some risk. ;)

There are no medals for "Potato Peeler of the Year". ;) ;)
 
I can fortify? I think you mean something else. Not sure what.

I will enjoy learning in this thread as things unfold.

stwils
 
Turns 1-30

4000 BC Beijing founded as I see no obvious reason to move it. Pottery research started at 100%.
3950 BC
3800 BC
3750 BC Beijing builds Warrior.
3650 BC Pottery research; research on Alphabet started.
3550 BC Bejing builds another Warrior; starts another. This warrior fortifies at home.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/QSC-c1-Borealis_bc3550.sav


3500 BC Beijing's boundaries expand.
3400 BC With three warriors, I risk popping the nearby hut. An angry Polynesian warrior is disturbed.
3350 BC My warrior wins his battles, and is promoted to elite. Beijing switches to Granary, since it has two exploring units.
3100 BC Alphabet discovered; research started on Writing. I'm gambling on getting techs from huts, or other civs.
3050 BC The Kushans teach us Bronze Working. :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/QSC-c1-Borealis_bc3550.sav

2900 BC Beijing buids Granary; starts settler. Beijing microed to grow just when its settler is built.
2630 BC Beijing builds setter; starts spear. Our elite warrior pops a hut, disturbing an angry Yue-Chi warrior. He survives his battle with 1 HP lost.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/QSC-c1-Borealis_bc25901.sav

(Edit: posted wrong save earlier for last point. Fixed to avoid oreo penalties. :blush: )
 
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