Resources and Secondary Resources

I would like to see a more industrial-oriented aproach to resources. I don't know how to implement these, but as a veteran Civ III and IV player, i would like to see a deeper approach to resources. I would also add Porcelain and Jewelry to this list, since the City States already have, but it would dimish to much the City States.

BONUS RESOURCES

Rice
Food: +1
Production: 0
Gold: 0
Can be Found on: Flood Plains, Mountains, Marshes or Plains
Improvement Needed to Access: Farm

Potato
Food: +1
Production: 0
Gold: 0
Can be Found on: Grasslands, Plains, Mountains
Improvement Needed to Access: Farm

Barley
Food: +1
Production: 0
Gold: 0
Can be Found on: Grasslands, Plains, Flood Plains
Improvement Needed to Access: Farm

Manioc (Cassava)
Food: +1
Production: 0
Gold: 0
Can be Found on: Grasslands, Plains, Mountains, Jungle
Improvement Needed to Access: Farm

LUXURY RESOURCES

Tobbacco
Food: 0
Production: 0
Gold: +2
Can be Found on: Grassland, Plains, Jungle,
Improved By: Plantation

SECONDARY RESOURCES

Treated Leather (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: Cattle or Deer
Building Required:: Leather Maker (+1 engineer slot, unlocked with Animal Husbandry)
Bonuses: +2 Happiness

Textile Fiber (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: Banana, Sheep or Cassava
Building Required:: Fiber Maker (+1 engineer slot, unlocked with Civil Service)
Bonuses: +2 Happiness
Why? Banana fiber was a main product in medieval japan, the basic fiber of Kimonos. Wool was one of the eldest manufactured item.

Beer (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: Barley
Building Required:: Brewery (+1 culture, unlocked with Theology)
Bonuses: +1 Happiness

Vodka (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: Wheat
Building Required:: Distillery (+1 culture, unlocked with Education)
Bonuses: +1 Happiness

Rum (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: Sugar
Building Required:: Distillery (+1 Culture, unlocked with Fertilizer)
Bonuses: +1 Happiness

Rice Wine (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: Rice
Building Required:: Brewery (+1 Culture, unlocked with Metal Casting)
Bonuses: +1 Happiness

Medicine Drugs (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: None
Building Required:: Medicine Factory (+1 Scientist Slot, unlocked with Penicillin)
Bonuses: +2 Happiness

Commercial Cars (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: Oil
Building Required:: Car Factory (+1 engineer slot, consumes 1 oil and 1 iron, unlocked with Plastics)
Bonuses: +2 Happiness

Commercial Aircrafts (Secondary Resource)
Worked Resource Required: Oil
Building Required:: Aircraft Industries (+1 engineer slot, consumes 1 oil and 1 aluminum, unlocked with Rocketry)
Bonuses: +2 Happiness

I like what you are getting at, it would be great to see the real life "primary resources > trade goods > high end trade goods" mechanics being replicated, but I think that a bit more of "method" would be necessary. For example

Primary resources: No requirement needed, these are purely raw resources extracted from the earth. They give a small bonus to your civilization

Trade goods: They require either two primary resources, or a primary resource + an ad hoc building in order to get produced. They give a medium bonus to your civilization

High end trade goods: The most complex trade elements to acquire, they require trade goods + primary resources + ad hoc building in order to be made. They give a high, crucial bonus to your civilization


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>> Primary resources (first tier resources)

Wheat: +1 food on each city with granaries (accumulative)

Rice: +1 food on each city with granaries (accumulative)

Cattle: +2 food on each city with butchery

Fish: +1 food on each coastatal city

Cloth: +1 happiness empire - wide

Spices: +1 happiness empire - wide

Gold: +1 happiness empire wide

Diamonds: +1 happiness empire wide

Iron: +1 production empire wide, required to build certain units

Coal: +1 production empire wide, required to build certain units

Oil: +1 production empire wide, required to build certain units

Alluminum: +1 production empire wide, required to build certain units


>> Trade goods (second tier resources)

Jewelry
Requirements: gold + jewels, or either of the two aforementioned elements + mint
Effects: +1 happiness +2 culture

Fine silks
Requirements: Cloth + weaver guild
Effects: +2 happiness +1 culture

Alcoholic berverages
Requirements: Wheat + rice, or either of the two aforementioned elements + brewery
Effects: +3 happiness

Leather
Requirements: Cattle + leather maker
Effects: +1 production +1 happiness +1 culture

Steel
Requirements: Iron + steel mill
Effects: +3 production

Heavy machinery
Requirements: Iron + coal
Effects: +3 production

Chemicals:
Requirements: coal + oil, or either of the two previous elements + chemical plant
Effects: +2 science +2 production

>> High end goods (third tier resources)

Medicines
Requirements: Spices + Chemicals + medical laboratory
Effect: +20% growth

Consummer electronics
Requirements: Heavy machinery + alluminium + Electronics plant
Effect: +15% gold and science

Cars
Requirements: Heavy machinery + oil + car plant
Effect: +15% production and happiness

Automatic weapons
Requirements: Steel + oil + weapons plant
Effect: +15% to combat strenght to all units

Fashion accesories
Fine silks + Jewelry + leather + Fashion studio
Effect: +15% happiness and culture

Ethanol
Requirements: Alcoholic berverages + chemicals + ethanol plant
Effect: Substitutes oil, +15% science

Just make every single Commodity in the game subject to trade. Then bring back the IV resources and them some. Like Tobacco, Coffee, Tea etc.

But love this idea nonetheless.

I also love this idea. Right now luxury resources are simply boring in their implementation since they are not unique from one another. The above ideas are great since they will create a strong need for trade deals in order to reach the all important second and third resource tiers.

Ikael said:

I like what you are getting at, it would be great to see the real life "primary resources > trade goods > high end trade goods" mechanics being replicated, but I think that a bit more of "method" would be necessary. For example

Primary resources: No requirement needed, these are purely raw resources extracted from the earth. They give a small bonus to your civilization

Trade goods: They require either two primary resources, or a primary resource + an ad hoc building in order to get produced. They give a medium bonus to your civilization

High end trade goods: The most complex trade elements to acquire, they require trade goods + primary resources + ad hoc building in order to be made. They give a high, crucial bonus to your civilization


======================

>> Primary resources (first tier resources)

Wheat: +1 food on each city with granaries (accumulative)

Rice: +1 food on each city with granaries (accumulative)

Cattle: +2 food on each city with butchery

Fish: +1 food on each coastatal city

Cloth: +1 happiness empire - wide

Spices: +1 happiness empire - wide

Gold: +1 happiness empire wide

Diamonds: +1 happiness empire wide

Iron: +1 production empire wide, required to build certain units

Coal: +1 production empire wide, required to build certain units

Oil: +1 production empire wide, required to build certain units

Alluminum: +1 production empire wide, required to build certain units


>> Trade goods (second tier resources)

Jewelry
Requirements: gold + jewels, or either of the two aforementioned elements + mint
Effects: +1 happiness +2 culture

Fine silks
Requirements: Cloth + weaver guild
Effects: +2 happiness +1 culture

Alcoholic berverages
Requirements: Wheat + rice, or either of the two aforementioned elements + brewery
Effects: +3 happiness

Leather
Requirements: Cattle + leather maker
Effects: +1 production +1 happiness +1 culture

Steel
Requirements: Iron + steel mill
Effects: +3 production

Heavy machinery
Requirements: Iron + coal
Effects: +3 production

Chemicals:
Requirements: coal + oil, or either of the two previous elements + chemical plant
Effects: +2 science +2 production

>> High end goods (third tier resources)

Medicines
Requirements: Spices + Chemicals + medical laboratory
Effect: +20% growth

Consummer electronics
Requirements: Heavy machinery + alluminium + Electronics plant
Effect: +15% gold and science

Cars
Requirements: Heavy machinery + oil + car plant
Effect: +15% production and happiness

Automatic weapons
Requirements: Steel + oil + weapons plant
Effect: +15% to combat strenght to all units

Fashion accesories
Fine silks + Jewelry + leather + Fashion studio
Effect: +15% happiness and culture

Ethanol
Requirements: Alcoholic berverages + chemicals + ethanol plant
Effect: Substitutes oil, +15% science

Click to expand...

Great comment! Thanks!

I tried to remain inside the game mechanics to make modding easier. I've seen mods already creating new resources and buildings generating resources is already in the game (Recycling Center for example) without changing the game mechanics too much.

The problem is all this could make game too easy.

Is it possible to buildings give negative happiness?

I would not like a Chemical Plant such as Bhopal in my city...

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The simplistic method of the current game is kind frustrating. How can my mighty and rich 30-city civilization import porcelain or jewelry from a puny city state?

***

Camarada78 said:

Great comment! Thanks!

I tried to remain inside the game mechanics to make modding easier.
The problem is all this could make game too easy.

Click to expand...

I will try to reformulate my previous system in order to make it a little tad more adjusted to the game reality without creating huge imbalances, let me see:

Basic rules

- Trade goods (Second tier resources) needs a primary resource + a special mercantile building

- High end goods (Third tier resources) needs a secondary resource + other resource + a special mercantile building

- When you create a second or third tier resource, you consume the lower tier resources needed in their processing, meaning that you lost their bonuses. They are not cumulative, but you are sacrifizing resources in order to gain a better effect than the initial one, say, you would lose your gold and diamonds (1 happiness each, meaning 2 happiness total) in order to create Jewelry, a resource better than both of them combined (grants 3 happiness)

- One mercantile building generates 1 resource. If you want additional resources to trade with, you should build more mercantile buildings then

- There's, however, a limit in the total number of mercantile buildings that a civilization might posses: you cannot build more than 10 mercantile buildings in your empire, meaning that you cannot produce every resource so you will resort to trade with other civs, and that wide empires, while good at providing primary resources, are not necessarily poised to become high end good providers (hello Africa - Western nations relationship!)

- Mercantile city states rather than gifting resources "per se", acts like free mercantile buildings for your civilization, taking your primary resources into second trade goods. The message would be something akin to "Venice has turned your cloth into fine silks and is now offering them to you!". That would mean that friendly relationships with mercantile CS are needed if you wish to become a trade powerhouse and punch above your weight

Non - resources

Deer, fish, stone, bananas... the usual "flavour resources" outside of the mercantile supply chain. They give tile specific bonuses, but nothing else.


>> Primary resources (first tier resources)

Wheat: +1 food on each city with granaries (accumulative)

Rice: +1 food on each city with granaries (accumulative)

Cattle: +2 food on each city with butchery

Cloth: +3 happiness empire - wide

Spices: +3 happiness empire - wide

Gold: +3 happiness empire wide

Diamonds: +3 happiness empire wide

Iron: +1 tile production, required to build certain units

Coal: +2 tile production,required to build certain units

Oil: +2 tile production and gold, required to build certain units

Alluminum: +3 tile production, required to build certain units


>> Trade goods (second tier resources)

Jewelry
Requirements: gold or jewels + mint
Effects: +5 hapiness +5 culture

Fine silks
Requirements: Cloth + weaver guild
Effects: +6 happiness +3 culture +10 gold

Alcoholic berverages
Requirements: Wheat or rice + brewery
Effects: +7 happiness

Leather
Requirements: Cattle + leather maker
Effects: +3 empire - wide happiness, +1 production on each city

Steel
Requirements: Iron + steel mill
Effects: +2 production on each city

Heavy machinery
Requirements: Iron or coal + heavy industry
Effects: +4 production per factory

Chemicals:
Requirements: coal or oil + chemical plant
Effects: +2 science +1 production on each city

>> High end goods (third tier resources)

Medicines
Requirements: Spices + Chemicals + medical laboratory
Effect: +25% growth empire - wide, +5 happiness

Consummer electronics
Requirements: Heavy machinery + alluminium + Electronics plant
Effect: +15% to empire gold and science

Cars
Requirements: Heavy machinery + oil + car plant
Effect: +15% to empire production, +1 happiness per interconnected city

Automatic weapons
Requirements: Steel + oil + weapons plant
Effect: +15% to combat strenght to all units

Fashion accesories
Requirements: two of the following itmes: Fine silks, Jewelry and leather + Fashion studio
Effect: +25% to culture production, +7 happiness

Ethanol
Requirements: Alcoholic berverages + chemicals + ethanol plant
Effect: Substitutes oil, +15% science

Camarada78 said:

The simplistic method of the current game is kind frustrating. How can my mighty and rich 30-city civilization import porcelain or jewelry from a puny city state?

Click to expand...

Civilization V took a general route of little to none historical accuracy and little regard for historical dynamics in the behalf of a more board game - like approach which tends to bring this kind of situations *sigh*I enjoy it for what it is, but I hope that Civ VI goes in the opposite direction

Shame on the game designers if they do not at least consider your brilliant ideas.

ShadowWarrior said:

Shame on the game designers if they do not at least consider your brilliant ideas.

Click to expand...

This is a great community, far bigger than a board of game designers at firefaxis.

And the recent extreme commoditization and cripple-ware-ification of every single game, make games purposely shallow and with a little under-developed feel...

It is on purpose.


Even Civ IV, probably the best game of its genre of all time, only became truly amazing after Beyond the Sword and its mods.

What might be interesting is perhaps have it so that a new city state type, Industrious, can take your raw materials and make them into high-end goods while also giving some meager production bonuses.

May i add 1 more commodity?
Cement
needs marble and coal, plus a cement factory. It'll add 5% production to buildings all over the empire.

And 1 more thing, you don't need to restrict the number of those special buildings.
But those building should only can be built, if those resource combination is exist in that city. It'll add more value to city placement, and promotes warfare for one special city.

The thing about restricting manufacturing buildings is precisely to force you to actually trade your resources in order to get them all. It is also a realistic approach to how economy works in real life: no single country can produce everything, hence why we humans have been trading since the dawn of mankind and why countries tends to specialize in producing certain goods, and why "wide civs" such as Russia or lot of African countries can only gain a competitive advantage at providing raw materials rather than manufactured goods.

Well... Why not a Civ 5 G&K version of Rise of Mankind "A New Dawn" MOD for CIV 4... that would take all our suggestions at once.

Neat idea, but one must be careful when building these type of "frankenstein mods", for some added mechanics and ideas can interfere and dampen others. However, it would be really cool to put a common "ideas worth of implementing in Civ VI".

Nice idea!Trade needs some spicing up, considering the importance of trade in history.
________________________________
Stupid truth always resisting simplicity.
-John Green

This really is a great idea. I have another idea for a secondary resource, which would be Breads. It would use the primary resource wheat, and also require a wheat farm and a wheat mill which would be a building. Breads would give +3 food and +1 happiness. wheat unimproved would give 0 extra food, and with a farm would provide 1 more food, and a mill would give that tile an additional 2 food.

I think this is mod-able but I question how to get the AI to understand these complex trade arrangements. You would need a good interface upgrade to track these deals.

Jatta Pake said:

I think this is mod-able but I question how to get the AI to understand these complex trade arrangements. You would need a good interface upgrade to track these deals.

Click to expand...

I think that a cheap way to do it would be something like:

- First tier resource = same value as a current luxury resource
- Second tier resouce = same value as a marble type of resource (non accumulative resource, it is asked just one by one)
- Third tier resource = Double the value of 3 current strategic resources

And now, an idea for making the space victory an even more of a hard thing:

Spaceship structure
Requires Electronics + Steel + Spaceship factory

Spaceship hibernation capsule
Requires Medicines + Chemicals + Spaceship factory

Spaceship engine
Requires Ethanol + Heavy machinery + Spaceship factory

Spaceship fuel cell
Requires Ethanol + Chemicals + Spaceship factory

Spaceship control cockpit
Requires electronics + high tech weapons + medicines + Spaceship factory

*trollface.jpg*

What I'd like to see is luxury & bonus resources work like strategic resources-namely having a "size" rating which effects things like the happiness they produce, or.the production, food or gold yields of the tile they sit on (possibly culture, science & faith too). So, for example-a size 4 gold deposit might grant 2 happiness, whereas a size 1 or 2 deposit might produce only 1 happiness. Converting it to a second tier resource-like jewelry-depletes the resource as a happiness source, but doubles the happiness value of the resource. Hope that makes sense.

So, further to my previous post. Primary luxury resources-like dyes, gems or gold, come from size 1-6, providing +1 to +3 happiness. A building such as a jewelers will convert 1 unit of gold, silver and/or gems into jewelry-with each unit of jewelry producing +2 happiness. Just a thought! Oh, & it would be great if you could trade food too. Maybe if you had buildings that could turn raw food boni into food and/or production-based on how many units you have.