How to win an epic battle?

I couldn't think of another topic headline, I hope it fits. My games nearly always come to the same situation: I play Continents, I conquer my continent and we have a runaway on the other one.

Right now in my game, it's me (China) and Egypt. We are both kind of equal in strength. So same score, same tech (he already has GWI out, i have the tech but not the money to upgrade.. But it seems I am teching faster in general), he has a lot more culture but I somehow managed to get the World Ideology Order while he chose Autocracy... Both have 12-14 cities, some 20+ wonders (mostly conquered). You get the picture. I tried to be faster and set sail for his continent, but ~20 before I was ready to roll he decided to steamroll Byzantinum, the last potent AI on his side.

So what do I do in sich a situation? Is there a specific tech i.e. Like Dynamite, that gives you the edge against the AI? Should I beeline for Bombers? Nukes? Or just declare war and try to thin his troops out? I actually tried to go all-in-war but I lack a proper Navy and that's a real problem.

Or just screw Domination and go for a DV or SV? CV is out of the question, too many advantages for little Mr. Wondergrabber. Unfortunately he is earning ~ 450 g / turn according to Enhanced UI while only make 150, so DV... Difficult.

Any advice? It's just my second game on Immortal and i don't want to lose it. I am ok with early - midgame warfare, but I have my issues with the late game domination.

I play on Immortal as well, and for me there's a few key units for dominating at that stage of the game against a powerful AI while playing Continents. Obviously there are other useful units but these are the main ones IMHO.

Infantry - Something has to take the beatings, protect the arty, and capture the cities.

Artillery - Nothing else blows city defenses up as quickly and safely. Planes will work but even bombers with Air-Repair will take a lot of damage and need a turn or two of rest before you use them again after one or two city attacks.

Submarines - Subs with Wolfpack III will one shot the vast majority of enemy vessels. I find 6-8 subs going in ahead of the main force will absolutely obliterate the enemy navy so that your fleet can operate with impunity. Plus the AI tends to have loads of melee naval units kicking around and the turn after you take a coastal city they might take it back just through the sheer volume of privateers and ironclads they'll throw at it.

Great War Bombers / Bombers - These are critical for dealing with enemy ground forces, and for finishing off navy units your Subs didn't 1-shot.

Triplanes / Fighters - Intercepting enemy aircraft attacking your troops. I find the an AI equal to you in tech likes to have a ton of bombers lying around. Roughly 30-40% of my air force will be fighters to help deal with the initial bomber onslaught, and later for running Air Sweeps to clear the way for your bombers.

As to your specific situation I would hold off attacking until you have everything in place to quickly steamroll him instead of attacking early and fighting a longer more drawn out war where you'll take more losses (which are harder for you to replace compared to the AI).

I like to invade with:
3 carriers loaded up with 2 fighters and 3 bombers
6+ Submarines
However many infantry, artillery and machine guns I can muster
However many battleships I can afford to rush buy after all the other stuff is built
1 Destroyer (or Ironclad/Privateer is good enough until you tech combustion) to help capture the initial coastal city, and to go around taking the other coastal city while my ground forces move inland.

Here's all you need to invade his land and gain a foothold for your army:

3+ Battleships: these will bombard his city from out of range (consider giving them the range upgrade for the third promotion just in case he has artillery/battleships of his own.

2+ submarines: these will annihilate his naval forces

1 carrier with 2+ fighters: this is your air defense. If you have the Sortie promotion (2 interceptions per turn) you can get by with 2 fighters, but four fighters is safer. Can always use the fighters to pick off nearly dead units too.

That's enough of a navy in most cases. If he's heavily invested in his own navy then you might need like 4+ Battleships and 4+ Subs but once your ships start hitting logistics you'll completely annihilate anything he throws at you on the water. That said, Battleships are preferable to subs in general due to being able to bombard coastal cities and annihilate land units (130 attack strength? Yes please!).

Oh, and yes, you'll need Dynamite for land combat to take cities. Artillery plus melee units can take cities. You will need air defense, so you either need fighters in nearby cities or have your melee units be AA guns -> Mobile SAMs. A half dozen Mobile SAMs and another half dozen Rocket Artillery can sweep his continent. The SAMs shield the artillery, capture cities, and defend against AA while the Rocket Artillery crushes units and cities.

Remember, your goal isn't to get enough of a navy to rule the ocean and crush all his coastal cities (though it could be) -- your goal is to get ONE coastal city of his so you can land your army and get to work on HIS continent. Use that foothold and keep pressing forward.

battleships n subs. the ai breaks down when you play naval warfare which is a shame because they should be really good at it given they don't have to worry about chokepoints and whatnot that make their land algorithms break down but whatever. the point is a few battleships and subs and a couple infantry will bring down empires like you will not believe. sounds like you have a good bit of production so i can't see how this will fail unless you fall really far behind his tech and he'll be able to keep your landing force at bay w/ rocket artiilery. Marines are a noob trap I've found they suck and they aren't worth giving up 5 combat strength for the amphibious promotion. you'd think 5 combat strength isn't a big deal but it really is. just use infantry.

LordBalkoth said:

Remember, your goal isn't to get enough of a navy to rule the ocean and crush all his coastal cities (though it could be) -- your goal is to get ONE coastal city of his so you can land your army and get to work on HIS continent. Use that foothold and keep pressing forward.

Click to expand...

Better to do both simultaneously IMHO. Take that first coastal city to land your ground forces and send them inland while your Navy goes around mopping up coastal cities.

If you're able, storing up a few GS really helps. It's one thing to go over with a Wolfpack of subs and enough troops to secu a beachhead and take a coastal city or CS. But being able to have artillery you can upgrade into Rocket Artillery pretty much ends the war.

As much fun as Tanks are, they are not the answer in a serious struggle because of the tech path. You want to Bulb into Radar ASAP. The improved bombers are nice, but without the heal promotion they aren't strong enough. A few fighters for defense are quite helpful but infantry and 6 Rocket Artillery roll over anything.

BARBEERIAN said:

Better to do both simultaneously IMHO. Take that first coastal city to land your ground forces and send them inland while your Navy goes around mopping up coastal cities.

Click to expand...

My point was there's a difference between investing in like a dozen battleships to send half a dozen per coastal city and rip through them (like you would on Archipelago) and just making enough of a navy to be able to take a coastal city. The navy can potentially move on to other cities but that it wouldn't be the main thrust of your assault.

DocRock said:

So what do I do in sich a situation? Is there a specific tech i.e. Like Dynamite, that gives you the edge against the AI? Should I beeline for Bombers? Nukes? Or just declare war and try to thin his troops out? I actually tried to go all-in-war but I lack a proper Navy and that's a real problem.

Click to expand...

How to steamroll an AI efficiently (time-wise, not necessarily on a per-hammer cost-benefit evaluation)?

Thanks for your help! I am t work now, but I will test it this evening. I actually never used Subs before, so I will give it a try.

I forgot to mention that I already established a foothold on his continent, the last two remaining cities of Portugal were on the coast and now they give me a good base of operations. There are already 10 artillery, 6-7 Gatlings (upgraded from the Chinese UU) and 3-4 Rifleman waiting. But his Navy captured my cities on the first try with Frigates + Ironclad, he rushed a lot of GWI and he has some Bombers, while I have no air defense so far. By the way, I was thinking of just capturing another CS on his continent... it's just the two of us after all, screw my reputation.

So alright, think I am beelining for Subs, Bombers/Fighters, some Battleships and maybe a Nuke

Sorry but I have one more question. The above mentioned Egypt guy attacked me while I was teching for Bombers. I am in a really intense defensive battle now ( <3 Immortal ) and although I already sunk ~20 Frigates and Privateers with my one Battleship and Artillery, I guess I will not be able to hold my bridgehead on his continent.

The main problem is, that he gets so much money (500 / turn) that he grabs all the CS. So I was thinking - why not go on a conquest spree and just capture his CS? They are mainly on one big CS island.

Are there any disadvantages in doing that? It's just the two of us left (and two 1-city civs that I do not care about), so relationships should be irrelevant? As well as a DV.. Impossible to pull that. So I could buy myself some time to tech for a SV or come back with some lovely nukes.