SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

Nice play so far, jesusin.

.In KonTiki, build a galley/work boat for 1 turn to allow growth, and then switch back to the worker to allow maximum overflow into the paratrooper.

IMO, the date of Hammi conquest is relatively unimportant, so no need to butcher our research for a few turns by revolting to Police State.

I also think we might need State Property before we have AL. Should we take something less ambitious with Liberalism? Like Biology or Steam Power?
 
One more clarification on the airship at KT. It can rebase to the fort from any city, so that can happen the same turn the paratrooper goes to the fort. I tested this.

What's not possible, unfortunately, is airlifting paras to a fort using our airports. Bummer...

Yes, I've tested these two things as well and confirm these statements. Just providing general support to LC to make him like me more.

Yet Police would get us all those juicy cities sooner and save a bunch of pop in our whipped cities.

My plan was whip MW and regrow it, can also get out of PolSta in 5 tuns. No cottages remain unworked.

EDIT: Ha, no n*1000^3 posts for the captain.

I understand you're reasoning jesusin. I just happen to disagree :goodjob:

Anyway, you decide - it's your turn set :)

I'll ask ainwood to shift our posts...
 
Regarding liberation. There's two choices: either you liberate one city to an adjacent AI, or you liberate all cities on the continent. So we will have trouble selecting which cities we liberate and which we keep.

But - if we liberate the first two cities in Europe (which will create a new stand alone AI), we can then select which cities we liberate to that AI. So we can keep those we want. I don't know if there are any limitations i.e. if the receiving AI can block us from liberating crappy cities. So once we have captured Libyan, we lift a settler and quickly build a second city, while lifting more paratroopers to Libyan. Once we have enough paratroopers, we drop towards Stalin, and liberate the two cities.
 
Yet Police would get us all those juicy cities sooner and save a bunch of pop in our whipped cities.

My plan was whip MW and regrow it, can also get out of PolSta in 5 tuns. No cottages remain unworked.
Okay, some facts. (Shoot me if I goofed up, but I doubt it.)
Code:
When paras will complete using my calcs/MM

T0 is now
T1 GAge
    w/o PS  w/PS  Where
    ------  ----  -----
T2 
T3
T4     3       3   FF+C1+KT
T5             1   MW
T6   
T7     1       2   C1--C1+Mar
T8     1       2   Mar--C1+FL       
T9     3       1   MW+C1+FL--MW
T10            1   C1
T11    1           C1
      --      -- 
Total  9      10
Code:
Overall stats with Police State:

+2 paratroopers +56h
[COLOR="red"]-4[/COLOR]pop in MW
+1pop in FF and KT, but really inconsequential (fast growth)
[COLOR="Red"]-650[/COLOR]b @100% (-450b + estimated -200b lost while growing MW back 
after the GA is over
 
I think no police state anymore in this game - ever.
BTW, health in MW. Just cancel corn deal with Joao or Hammi. We are trading away all our corn currently :).
 
Ok, no PolSta, no whipping MW.
MM KT now, MM MW for more hammers next turn, so that it grows in 2 anyway.
Think about launching GAge next turn, probably reject the idea till the following turn.

Continuing now.
 
Something terrible has happened. This game behaviour is regrettable. C1: Instead of completing an Archer, getting a nice overflow and a bunch of coins, we now have a 99% complete Rifle. We will get the first C1 paratrooper in 3 turns, anyway, so I plan to complete the Rifle.
 
Turnset finished.

Turnset report here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8083650&postcount=980

Save uploaded.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm9/Murky_Waters_SG009_AD0710_01.CivBeyondSwordSave


Turnlog:
Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 470 AD to 710 AD:

Turn 89, 470 AD: Confucianism has spread in Fine Leg.
Turn 89, 470 AD: You have trained Confucian Missionary in Marble. Work has now begun on Confucian Missionary.
Turn 89, 470 AD: You have trained a Archer in C1. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 89, 470 AD: You have constructed a Odeon in Fine Leg. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 89, 470 AD: Shaka adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 89, 470 AD: Confucianism has spread in Oporto.
Turn 89, 470 AD: Alhazen (Great Scientist) has been born in Oporto (Joao II)!
Turn 89, 470 AD: Leaders of Christianity have a vision of uniting all Christian faithful under the The Apostolic Palace.
Turn 89, 470 AD: Hammurabi has completed The Apostolic Palace!

Turn 90, 500 AD: Narayana Guru (Great Prophet) has been born in Murky Waters (Pericles)!
Turn 90, 500 AD: You have trained a Archer in C1. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 90, 500 AD: You have trained a Worker in KonTiki. Work has now begun on a Worker.
Turn 90, 500 AD: You have constructed a Lighthouse in Flood Plains. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 90, 500 AD: Shaka converts to Buddhism!
Turn 90, 500 AD: Joao II converts to Confucianism!
Turn 90, 500 AD: The Apostolic Palace voting members have announced their decision: Apostolic Palace Election (Winner Proposes Apostolic Palace Resolutions) (Requires 18 of 46 Total Votes)

Turn 91, 530 AD: SW Clams has been founded.
Turn 91, 530 AD: Pericles has completed Mausoleum of Maussollos!
Turn 91, 530 AD: You have constructed Mausoleum of Maussollos in Murky Waters. Work has now begun on a Airport.
Turn 91, 530 AD: You have trained a Worker in Frozen Fish. Work has now begun on a Worker.
Turn 91, 530 AD: You have trained a Archer in C1. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 91, 530 AD: Nathan Hale (Great Spy) has been born in Ulundi (Shaka)!
Turn 91, 530 AD: Tycho Brahe (Great Scientist) has been born in Cuzco (Huayna Capac)!

Turn 92, 560 AD: You have trained Confucian Missionary in Marble. Work has now begun on Confucian Missionary.
Turn 92, 560 AD: You have trained a Archer in C1. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 92, 560 AD: Shaka's Golden Age has begun!!!

Turn 93, 590 AD: Confucianism has spread in SW Clams.
Turn 93, 590 AD: You have discovered Horseback Riding!
Turn 93, 590 AD: Frozen Fish celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 93, 590 AD: The borders of Marble have expanded!
Turn 93, 590 AD: You have trained a Airship in C1. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 93, 590 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Flood Plains. Work has now begun on a Galley.
Turn 93, 590 AD: The borders of SW Clams have expanded!

Turn 94, 620 AD: Pericles's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 94, 620 AD: You have discovered Rifling!
Turn 94, 620 AD: You have trained a Worker in Frozen Fish. Work has now begun on a Worker.
Turn 94, 620 AD: Frozen Fish celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 94, 620 AD: You have trained a Worker in KonTiki. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.

Turn 95, 650 AD: You have discovered Compass!
Turn 95, 650 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in C1. Work has now begun on a Paratrooper.
Turn 95, 650 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Mosquito Ranch. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 95, 650 AD: Hammurabi adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 95, 650 AD: C1's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 96, 680 AD: Shaka has 2 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 96, 680 AD: Confucianism has spread in KonTiki.
Turn 96, 680 AD: You have discovered Optics!
Turn 96, 680 AD: Frozen Fish has grown to size 10
Turn 96, 680 AD: The borders of C1 have expanded!
Turn 96, 680 AD: KonTiki has grown to size 5
Turn 96, 680 AD: You have trained a Paratrooper in KonTiki. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 96, 680 AD: Flood Plains has grown to size 6
Turn 96, 680 AD: You have trained a Galley in Flood Plains. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 96, 680 AD: SW Clams has grown to size 2

Turn 97, 710 AD: Wang Kon has 4 gold per turn available for trade

 
For next PPP:

Whip FF. Move southernmost worker S, to the hill for MR. Move southernmost miss to MR. Trade away Alpha. Let workers complete tasks. Free workers windmill it all.

By the way, where were all those terrible barbs? I never saw one. Whouldn't we be netting that sea food around MR?
 
Excellent work, jesusin!!!

Too bad about disbanding the rifleman--must have had something to do with building a windmill in FP. :lol:

Well, guys, we don't know how we compare to others at T100, but I'd say we pretty much achieved our goals, didn't we? We avoided having barbs build a city somewhere we don't want it, we got MW cottaged to death, we're building riflemen paratroopers. Looking good so far!
 
Nice play! :goodjob:

Good to see that we have 14 workers :)

Gnejs, you are up! Fiveaces can play after you. I will be on vacation Wednesday to Sunday, so don't expect the usual noice from me :D

The next 20 turns will be very exciting, where our score and power will skyrocket. xteam power graph indicates that we're pretty close to each other.

Something terrible has happened. This game behaviour is regrettable. C1: Instead of completing an Archer, getting a nice overflow and a bunch of coins, we now have a 99% complete Rifle. We will get the first C1 paratrooper in 3 turns, anyway, so I plan to complete the Rifle.

Ohmy! I didn't think about the archer going obsolete!! And I suggested this sequence :blush:
 
Looking over the other continent, we only really need (Libyan,) UmGung, and Ulundi before switching from HeredRule to Representation:

MW
---
4:) life
5:) bldgs (w/theater)
1:) religion
10:) resources (furs, wine, whales, silk, dyes, ivory)
3:) for Representation
----
23:)


This means that we don't necessarily need to go hogwild capturing cities over there. We can select the best ones for the long run. With Representation, we probably want to run as many specialists as possible, so we should grow MR as fast as possible. It might also make sense to beeline Biology next, whose prereqs are the same for AL anyway. This opens up NatPark and +1f for farms, obviously. (Did I mention that Erkon already mentioned this? ;))

The workers we capture from Hammi can farm to the C1 wheat and then farm the entire C1 plains. After we're done warring, C1 could focus on growth rather than production, then be a solid producer for late GAs. Also farm FL's rice, of course. Nobamba might be a similar situation--farm and grow it for some late production. UmGung could grow really fast with a couple of farms, then later workshops. Libyan and Yaroslav similarly. So if we decide to go in this direction, the Biology beeline seems good.
 
Gnejs, you are up! Fiveaces can play after you. I will be on vacation Wednesday to Sunday, so don't expect the usual noice from me :D
Hot damn! :dance: :banana:

Hurry up and play guys so I can get in on some of this warmongering before Erkon comes back...
:ar15::aargh::aargh::aargh: Kill 'em! Kill 'em all!!!
 
Superb stuff, jesusin!

Looking at the save: the barbs are building a road between Libyan and Assyrian, so invading troops can move faster and capture a worker.

Do we need a 2nd paratrooper for the barb city(s) over there? If so, FF should whip now, and it can paradrop onto Greenland next turn.

edit: I wonder if there are interesting resources in Antarctica. Is there any chance we can get a boat out there?
 
Turnset report T89-T97.


T89
T90

T91
T92
T93

Continuing... (posts up to 1006 belong here)


T90
...

T91
...

Is something wrong here? :crazyeye: I hope that's just a typo in your report. :eek:
 
Is something wrong here? :crazyeye: I hope that's just a typo in your report. :eek:

It only comes to show why I'll never be able to win the Spanish Go(google weichi) Championship. I find myself losing cause I don't know how to count up to 4.
 
Now that el'chicki'chicki is a bit obsolete as a mental image of jesusin, perhaps we can use this guy as an alter ego for klarius? I just can't make up my mind of who of the two beauties is closest match to LC? :dunno:
 
GOT IT! :D

Nice play, jesusin! :goodjob:

Starting to draft a PPP, hope to have a first version tonight.
 
Pre-Play-Plan T97-105 v2.0

Pre-Play-Plan OVERVIEW
Build paras and launch against Hammurabi, with the target of capturing Dur-Kuligalzu, Babylon, and as many workers as possible. Also send one para to capture Libyan. Build or upgrade two galleons, fill with some paras, and launch against Shaka, taking Atlantis on the way if it doesn't delay us too much. Research Astro-Bio beeline. Develop southern cities.

RESEARCH
Astronomy (5t)-Engineering(2t)-Chemistry. Motivation: Biology is more useful than Printing Press.

CITY BUILDS
MW: Airport(t97)-Para(t101)-Observatory-Lab
FF: Para (whipped for 4 pop on t100)-Para
Marble: Para(MM for t100)-Conf Miss (for Babylon)
C1: Para(t97)-Para(t99)-Para(t101)-Para
FL: Para(t100)-Para
FP: WB-WB-Galleon-WB
MR: Lighthouse (poprushed)-Library
KT: Galley(1t, partial)-WB(1t)-Para(partial)-Galley(completed with chop T100, becomes Galleon)
SWC: Granary(poprushed this turn)-LH

UNIT MOVES
FP Galley goes to SWC to protect seafood against Hammurabi. Prepare to emergency upgrade if necessary (trade for coin, reduce slider?)
FP Airship rebases to SWC, then scout landing sites for paras
Rifleman steals worker, then walks to Dur-K
KT Airship scouts Atlantis this turn, landing site for para next turn
KT para lands in SW Norway, moves to Libyan asap
GP sleeps
Missionaries to MR, FP
MW galley moves 1 NW, upgrades to Galleon, goes to Atlantis
KT galleon goes to current MW galley position


WORKER ACTIONS
KT workers: w1 roads forest/fort tile this turn, completes fort next turn, completes road, then galley-jumps to mainland just before paras arrive on board. w2 moves 2 NW, helps windmill hill, roads. w3 windmills hill, cottage 2N KT, road

Marble workers: N worker farms around FF. Other two workers build fort for FL para. Then hopefully they can start farming from Dur-K to C1.

SWC workers: build windmills and roads

FP workers: two workers build fort S-SE from FP. Third worker builds windmills.

FL workers: farm at FP awaiting galleon transport to MR

MR worker: pasture, windmill

CITY MM
MM all cities for max science to get Astro in 4t.

MW: Grow asap to size 19, then stagnate working all tiles except lake and one corn.
Marble: MM for Para in 4t



DIPLOMATIC ACTIONS
T97 Sell Music to Hammurabi for gold, DoW Hammurabi and steal worker
Trade for gold on T97, then once more to get cash for Astro in 4t.

SEQUENCE


STOP CRITERIA
The usual...

OTHERS
Civic change - none
Religion change -none
Cities settled - none

Spoiler :
Pre-Play-Plan T97-105

Pre-Play-Plan OVERVIEW
Build paras and launch against Hammurabi, with the target of capturing Dur-Kuligalzu, Babylon, and as many workers as possible. Also send two paras to capture Libyan. Build or upgrade two galleons, fill with some paras, and launch against Shaka, taking Atlantis on the way if it doesn't delay us too much. Research Astro-Bio beeline. Develop southern cities.

RESEARCH
Astronomy (5t)-Engineering(2t)-Chemistry

CITY BUILDS
MW: Airport-Para-Observatory-Lab
FF: Para (whipped for 4 pop in 2t)-Market
Marble: Para-Conf Miss (for Babylon)
C1: Para-Para-Para-Para
FL: Para-Para
FP: WB-Odeon-Galleon
MR: Lighthouse (poprushed)-Galleon(poprushed)-WB
KT: WB-Para
SWC: Granary-LH

UNIT MOVES
FP Galley goes to SWC to protect seafood against Hammurabi. Prepare to emergency upgrade if necessary (trade for coin, reduce slider?)
FP Airship rebases to SWC, then scout landing sites for paras
Rifleman steals worker, then hangs around protecting C1 tiles, later garrisons Dur-K
KT Airship scouts landing site for para
KT para lands in SW Norway, moves to Libyan asap
GP builds confu Shrine
Missionaries to MR, FP
Other paras move city by city to Dur-K, except later ones that prepare to board Galleons for Shaka-land


WORKER ACTIONS
The three workers at Marble, why are they there? Why would we want to improve a hills/ice tile for a city that will never work it, when MR is totally undeveloped? I plan to send all three of them southwards, though maybe one of them will do some improvements at FF.
FP needs fort on plains tile (priority), three windmills
MR needs pigs pasture, windmills, farms, road
SWC needs windmills, road
C1 and FineLeg needs farm chains later, looks ok for now


CITY MM
MW: Grow asap to size 19, then stagnate working all tiles except lake and one corn.
FF: poprush-regrow


DIPLOMATIC ACTIONS
T97 Sell Music to Hammurabi for gold, DoW Hammurabi and steal worker
Trade with all the rest except Wang Kon

SEQUENCE


STOP CRITERIA

OTHERS
Civic change - none
Religion change -none
Cities settled - none
 
Comments on PPP

- Let the KT airship have a peek at Atlantis this turn.
- Whip FF this turn, so that the 2 parat can take Lybian more quickly.
- Keep the GPro for the second GAge.
- There's a windmill to be build around Marble, not for this city but for the southern one.
- Maybe chop out-of-fat-cross forests?
- Can't the MR poprushed galleon be built in FF instead?
- I'd change one of the galleon builds to Parat.
 
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