The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

Bouncing a few more ideas around here...

Heroes

Heroes would be national units that each civilization can only build one of. They are very expensive and are obviously also very good. Each civilization would be able to build their hero with the technology that the hero would become available.

The Greeks would be able to build Alexander the Great (hmm... that's their leader, would have to find another hero, but let's use him as an example nonetheless) when Heavy Cavalry becomes available. He would have twice the strength of the normal unit, and a few significant upgrades in, say, flanking.

Now, let's think of Heroes, and their abilities... I'm going to use TAM-CIV3 units as suggestions.

- Babylon: Gilgamesh (Warrior or Archer)
- Gaul - gotta look into Caesar for that, but a swordsman
- Greece - Achilles (Phalanx)
- Rome - Scipio (Legionary)
- Scythia - gotta check my Herodotus (Horse Archer, of course)
- Mongolia (will be changed to Huns) - no clue, but some Light Cavalry
- Egypt - gotta read up on that (War Chariot)
- Iberian Tribes - Spirit_Viriato... any ideas?
- Germanic Tribes - hmm... easy to find one (Berserk)
- Carthage - one of Hannibal's generals (War Elephant)
- Lydia - gotta check my Herodotus (Light Cavalry)
- Phoenicia - Dido? (Phoenician Trireme)
- Getae - anyone from Romania here? National hero?
- Persia - Xerxes (Immortal)
- Medes - no clue
- Britons - what's the name of that woman hero?
- Kolchis - no clue

Civs to come:
- Illyria OR Macedonia - Illyria - no clue; Macedonia - one of Alexander's generals (Heavy Cavalry)
- Nubia - no clue
- Berber - some Light Infantry
- Goths - many possibilities (Huskarl)

Suggestions?

If the leader are Viriato, I think that heroe can be the God "Lug".

No gods as heroes, please. Gilgamesh is as far as I will go towards superhero.

Can be "Túbal" ( due to mithology the first monarch of Iberia). But I ask to people to better answer. Certainly, the heroe are Viriato.

Gaul - Vercingetorix ?

I think Dido was a Godess

Nubia- Heru.
Berber- Antaios.
Illyria- Glaucius, Bardilys.
Scythia- Heracles, yes, he was no greek.
Mongolia- Jangur.
Egypt- Ramses II.
Iberian Tribes- If Viriato is the leader, perhaps then Quintus Sertorius, or Sertorio in our language(a renegade roman who fought at iberian side).
Phoenician- Cadmus.
Getae- Zalmoxis.
Medes- Medus.
Britons-Britomart.

I think some of them like Hanno, cadmus, zalmoxis, and perhaps more of them are in the game as Great People.

For Britons..do you mean Boudicca? Female chieftan of the Iceni tribe


And I guess I can take the list as "EdCase we need models for......."

Dido: Dido was the (semi-mythical) woman who founded Carthage. She was the daughter of a merchant in Tyre or Sidon (don't remember).

Gaul: Vercingetorix is already the leader, need someone else

Iberia: Quintus Sertorius is good, I remember him.

Britons: Yes, Boudicca. National hero until modern times. Perfect one.

@Ed: Well, we can do with the default units for a while, but maybe get some different skins or even different models later... Boudicca would need a female model, for example.

Updated to v0.6.

There is a problem with the Germanic Tribes XML. I've checked it five times now, made sure everything is correct... nothing. No chance. I have no clue what's wrong. Please look into it.

Spearthrower said:

Don't worry about the rating Thamis, this will surely become one of the longest and most sought after threads!!

I stopped playing C3C about a year ago and only played TAM from then on. I absolutely love the ancient ages; as an anthropologist, I have spent a number of years studying the roots of humanity, ancient cultures and languages etc etc and therefore find this the most interesting part of the game and your mod the best on the market!

I have been lurking here for years, but rarely post (about once a year!). I am changing that habit solely to offer help in any area that you think you may need the support. I can offer help in modelling and animating (with the release), historical write-ups, general spell-checking (I'm an English teacher ), game-play civ and terrain balancing issues..... wherever you feel like you have too much to do and too little time to do it!

Mail me at spear_thrower at hotmail dot com if you need assistance.

And thanks...... very big thanks, mahoosive great stonking thanks for a year of enjoyable moddage!

Click to expand...

Well a journalist...a school teacher... and a therapist...can the world or at least TAM/Civ4 stand the combination!

thamis said:

Thanks for your kind words and the offer to help. I think the best help you can give me is:
- Correct any errors that are evident in any city list or pedia description (there's no TAM pedia yet, but there will be).
- Any ideas on unique units.
- Any ideas on the tech tree
- Any ideas on religion (not quite sure if I want to keep the political correctness of CIV4 with all religions being equal... we're going to be dealing with ancient religions here, so no damage done I assume. )

Click to expand...

Yes I agree with you on the religion thing. Other than a generic polytheism using Hinduism as the base, I think the only other religions worth keeping as they are would be Judaism...and perhaps Christianity. Since old TAM ended around lets say 600AD, Islam appears too late within the proscribed timeframe to be included. Hopefully this won't be taken out of context.

thamis said:

Bouncing a few more ideas around here...

Heroes

Heroes would be national units that each civilization can only build one of. They are very expensive and are obviously also very good. Each civilization would be able to build their hero with the technology that the hero would become available.

The Greeks would be able to build Alexander the Great (hmm... that's their leader, would have to find another hero, but let's use him as an example nonetheless) when Heavy Cavalry becomes available. He would have twice the strength of the normal unit, and a few significant upgrades in, say, flanking.

Now, let's think of Heroes, and their abilities... I'm going to use TAM-CIV3 units as suggestions.

- Babylon: Gilgamesh (Warrior or Archer)
- Gaul - gotta look into Caesar for that, but a swordsman
- Greece - Achilles (Phalanx)
- Rome - Scipio (Legionary)
- Scythia - gotta check my Herodotus (Horse Archer, of course)
- Mongolia (will be changed to Huns) - no clue, but some Light Cavalry
- Egypt - gotta read up on that (War Chariot)
- Iberian Tribes - Spirit_Viriato... any ideas?
- Germanic Tribes - hmm... easy to find one (Berserk)
- Carthage - one of Hannibal's generals (War Elephant)
- Lydia - gotta check my Herodotus (Light Cavalry)
- Phoenicia - Dido? (Phoenician Trireme)
- Getae - anyone from Romania here? National hero?
- Persia - Xerxes (Immortal)
- Medes - no clue
- Britons - what's the name of that woman hero?
- Kolchis - no clue

Civs to come:
- Illyria OR Macedonia - Illyria - no clue; Macedonia - one of Alexander's generals (Heavy Cavalry)
- Nubia - no clue
- Berber - some Light Infantry
- Goths - many possibilities (Huskarl)

Suggestions?

Click to expand...

Egypt: Horemheb - King Tutankhamen's chief general and years later he ascended the throne to become Pharoah. Shmenkaare, Thutmoses - successful conquest minded Pharoahs. Nubia: Pi-Ankhi (unique unit - elite archers) A warrior Pharoah of Nubia and Egypt.

thamis said:

@Ed: Well, we can do with the default units for a while, but maybe get some different skins or even different models later... Boudicca would need a female model, for example.

Click to expand...

I have a low poly male, female and..................horse already made..just got to finish rigging them for animation. Adding spears,shields, swords armor etc is easy enough after that.
Boudicca would also need a chariot I believe.

But for now when the list comes together..I will adjust "suitable" in-game models skins as placeholders.

Achilles for greece..hmmm then blackish armor it will be

thamis said:

Re: Religion:

Judaism and Christinity could be a problem. But, to be honest. I don't care. Whoever takes his or her religion THAT seriously has lost all credibility in my eyes, and should go back to his religious mind and contemplate the deeper meaning of the word "game."

I am open to suggestions, as long as nobody flames me though.

Click to expand...

I have several suggestions for religions. Greek Mythology (Roman gods were essentially Greek gods renamed.); Zoroastrian (http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/zorast/zorast.html); Norse Mythology; Eternal Return (Summarian). Here is a nice website I found: http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/ancient_religions.htm

I have several suggestions for religions. Greek Mythology (Roman gods were essentially Greek gods renamed.); Zoroastrian (http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/zorast/zorast.html); Norse Mythology; Eternal Return (Summarian). Here is a nice website I found: http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/ancient_religions.htm

On the subject of heroes.... something from Civ3 conquests springs to mind...... remember the Shogun style scenario where developments in technologies allowed for upgrading of your solo Hero troop. In this way you could perhaps avoid the concern of say Alexander being both the Leader and the Hero as you could have the hero troop from the start (i.e. named the same as your Leader) but he/she would only get powerful later on with advancements in techs. You could set it up as a National unit with a limit of 1, therefore if it dies you can rebuild it (although it would be expensive)

About religions...why dont use some of the Greek World scenario ones? plus Zorotraism. No need to go with 7.

See the updated hero list on the front page.

I will use some of the religions from the Greek World scenario, as the icons are pretty cool. What I want is something like Judaism +2% interest, Zoroastrianism +2% science, etc... Some fairly minor adjustments.

Sorry for this lot of information Thamis.


I have found possible iberian heroes, also very famous, they are the leaders (they fought together) Indibil and Mardonio of the Íbera tribe of ilergetan and Ausetans. I leave imagenes of statues that are to the entrance of LLeida (one capital of province of Catalonia)... We have more information about this two guys, and are Iberian people not Romans.




Description for civilopedia:

Iberian leaders (second half of century III to C.). Both distinguished in the fight by the independence of their kingdoms as opposed to the invasion of Carthaginians and Romans, during the years of the Second Punic War (218-201 to C.). Indíbil belonged to ilergetans, established Iberian town between the Pyrenees, the Ebro, the Segre and the Gállego, around its capital, Ilerda (the present Lérida). Mandonio, on the other hand, belonged to the ausetans, established around Ausa (the present Vic)..

Both fought like allies of the Carthaginians against Rome, when this one attacked the Iberian Peninsula to resist the advance of Aníbal in Italy; Indíbil participated with Asdrúbal in the battle against Publio Escipión in which this one died (212). But, while Asdrúbal Boat prepared a new campaign against Italy, Publio Cornelio Escipión convinced to Indíbil and Mandonio of which the Carthaginians had betrayed to them and attracted to them the Roman side; ilergetans and ausetans collaborated with the Romans in the campaigns that took to them to snatch the Iberian Peninsula to the Carthaginians.

Soon they would discover that the Romans had not come to give back their independence to them, but to put under to them its dominion, reason why they continued its fight against Escipión. This one won to them and put under in years 206-204 to C., although Indíbil survived and continued fighting during some time..

In Spanish for future translations and for error translations

Caudillos iberos (segunda mitad del siglo iii a. C.). Ambos se distinguieron en la lucha por la independencia de sus reinos frente a la invasión de cartagineses y romanos, durante los años de la Segunda Guerra Púnica (218-201 a. C.).

Indíbil pertenecía a los ilergetes, pueblo ibérico establecido entre los Pirineos, el Ebro, el Segre y el Gállego, en torno a su capital, Ilerda (la actual Lérida). Mandonio, por su parte, pertenecía a los ausetanos, establecidos en torno a Ausa (la actual Vic).Ambos lucharon como aliados de los cartagineses contra Roma, cuando ésta atacó la península Ibérica para contrarrestar el avance de Aníbal en Italia; Indíbil participó con Asdrúbal en la batalla contra Publio Escipión en la que éste murió (212). Pero, mientras Asdrúbal Barca preparaba una nueva campaña contra Italia, Publio Cornelio Escipión convenció a Indíbil y Mandonio de que los cartagineses les habían traicionado y les atrajo al bando romano; ilergetes y ausetanos colaboraron con los romanos en las campañas que les llevaron a arrebatar la península Ibérica a los cartagineses.

Pronto descubrirían que los romanos no habían venido para devolverles su independencia, sino para someterles a su dominio, por lo que continuaron su lucha en contra de Escipión. Éste les venció y sometió en los años 206-204 a. C., aunque Indíbil sobrevivió y siguió combatiendo durante algún tiempo.

This mod actually made me go from a regular lurker into registering a fully fledged account, just so I could post my interest to help! I'm fairly good at the XML editing stuff, even though it is horrendously dry and boring to do manually , so if you want some help in that dep thamis, please let me know some specifics and I'll be most happy to help! This mod is a great initiative!