GOTM50 spoiler thread

Mountains and jungle: what a beautiful landscape!
But we are the smallest civ: 5 cities, 26 worked squares, 29 shields/turn ... and we own 23 techs.

Obviously we must explore, we must grow and we must research before we start conquering the world.

Situation 50 years later: 11 cities (18,14,12,10,8,6,6,5,5,3,2), 100 worked squares, 80 shields/turn, and we own 46 techs. The time has come to rush towards Mobile Warfare and build an army.

Situation 30 more years later: the conquest has really started, 18 cities (20,17,12,12,12,12,10,8,8,8,7,7,6,3,2,2,2,1), 167 worked squares, 262 shields/turn. We own 63 techs, 15 armours, 10 engineers and 15 spies.

From then on it's full throttle, almost no more research (apart from Robotics) and eventually conquest of the last foreign city in 16..

I was not joking about ICS - I did make a lot of small cities quickly, and now I wish I had made even more. Since I usually play only with ancient units, govts, etc, I was a little uncomfortable in this game, and had to try some new things - trade routes, fundy, cannons, ironclads, spies, railroads, etc. I got so far into the tech tree, I was even tempted to try for a spaceship.

But I did not push science as far or as fast as La Fayette, and probably won't reach mobile warfare. I found that cannons, engineers and spies were a good attacking combination. I was unsure which wonders were best, but chose MPE, STWA, and Mag's in the early game. My people suffered some unhappiness until Fundy, but I have no regrets about that. I am not used to attacking a democracy (no bribes) nor an AI with the UN (my reputation is now pretty awful).

It is late in the 1500's and only the Russians are left, so I expect to conquer sometime around 1600, plus or minus 10 years. I hope to learn a lot about playing the industrial age from this game and this spoiler thread. Best wishes to all !

La Fayette and other conquest players - please keep your saves, for when we are all done. Also, I hope to hear about your priorities for tech, govts, units, wonders, etc.

aaaargh !
Attacking with armours is very performing (I conquered the world in less than 30 years), but attacking early is even better (I bet you are going to prove that ).

For comparison, here are my stats at 50 turns (interpolated from 1527 and 1550) and at 80 turns.

1542ad: 35 cities (sizes 6,6,5...), 150s/t, 52 techs
1572ad: 73 cities (sizes 9,8,8...), 422s/t, 63 techs
How do you count the number of worked tiles?

In 1550ad, I controlled about half of Africa and had colonies on all continents, such as Dublin, Cambodia and Korea. By 1572, over half my cities were captures. I had defeated the Zulus, Chinese and was halfway thru Spain. I wrote the previous post in about 1580 and finished in a few more years. Railroads were surprisingly useful for conquest and boats were surprisingly feeble.

I am also surprised to see that our tech totals were equal in 1572. My best ones were fundy, espionage and machine tools. I did not have refining (etc) yet, and never really used any new techs after these. Should I have gone for refrigeration and electronics (HDam)? I am not very familiar with them, but guessed that my infrastructure was good enough.

I looked over Starlifter's Power Fundy for some clue how to play civ2 past monarchy. I made about 20 van deliveries, but probably should try for more (for tech). There was too much income to use, and I was spending an hour per turn towards the end on rush-buying and troop movements. A very difficult but instructive game for me. Thank you, GOTM staff.

Once again I have too few cities, but am otherwise ok. It's the late 1500's (which really doesn't give anything away) and am reseaching Jeeps -- tanks and howies (and spies, of course) are already under production.

Have yet to take a single city...but there are sooooooo many WONDERFUL sites overseas that my folks want to see...

After careful consideration I chose my strategy for this GOTM as follows.

Aztecs are very much behind. Demographics show that Aztecs are last in population and production; 6th in GNP and land area. Aztecs have no wonders, meager forces, and no white tech. The 5 cities span central America. Little of North or South America are explored. On the plus side, the capital has access to 4 specials: Buffalo, Fish, and 2 gold which makes it a suitable science city. None of the essential science city wonders are built. I am going to explore the Americas and conquer any civilizations I might find here. Then I am going to go for the Space race.

I started playing and have played about 25 turns now. I focused on exploration and wonder building. I was quite nervous about not getting essential science city wonders. But fortunately I have already built Colossus and Copernicus. Newton is almost never a challenge as few players bother with it. I myself would not build it without a science city. I have also built Marco and I am currently working on a 400 shield wonder. It would be Bach if I can get the tech otherwise I shall go for Adam Smith.

I have found 3 barbarian cities in the Americas so far. One is already bribed to my side. The other two shall be soon. I am almost done exploring South America and US.
Canada is still unexplored.

I have found this game so far to be very enjoyable. The barbarian cities were a delightful surprise. Thank you designers.

I agree Ali , I decided to play the game in a very different way.
I ussually go for the stronger Civ....Impossible in this scenario, going against the Spanish/Ottomans in the start was suicidal.
Having a beach head in Sub Sahara was important
Decided to conquer the Zulu's first.....
Then move north of the African Continent....
It worked....I Took Cairo ( Pyramids ), Alexandria , Mecca..then gave me a good back door to attack the Spaniards....
I allied with the Indians and Chinese, I think it was a great move to allow me to trade thru the Pacific without no hostile forces attacking my transports.
The Carvans income allowed me to subvert the Zulus and some small Ottoman Cities.
Then Built Airports in Indian/Chinese land , so I am able to ship a Caravan/Freight every other turn.

Year right now is 1645 , Apollo is built ...conquered the Zulu's , Ottomans have just 3 cities left , Russians are a Civ that is not hard to take ( took 60% of their cities ) I .. I am taking the Spanish as we speak...., hard , but doable, I took Vienna , Rome , and Paris( ? ) ..( Or whatever city is where Paris is in reality ...
By the way I like the Idea of Toledo being the Spanish Capital since my grandfather was born there....LOL
I only have to conquer my allies the Chinese and the Indians...not yet.....but soon, I never liked the idea of the spaceship...but it may be an option unless I can conquer the last 2 Civs.
I am not good at the space race....but it may be the final solution.
I have still, plenty turns to play.....
WHAT A GREAT SCENARIO !!

PS* Since I am a big Fan of the Indians..I named every city according to their closest known tribe in the real world..., from North to all of South America that made the game more fun.

I found this scenario to be rather difficult (of course i am new here ) It has a pretty difficult starting area, with few cities and pathetic techs. I immediately set out to improve the situation; i followed my usual strategy of making cities, LOTS of cities. i also made sure i got caught up on techs: i explored some and made friends with the chinese and indians, traded techs with them, made friends, and stole techs from the other civs (except wimpy zulus) I made sure to get invention, gunpowder, and leonardos workshop as soon as possible (probably the only reason i survived) I unfortunately got into a mess that i only later discovered; i declared war against both the spanish and the ottomans. this is quite an interesting scenario, though, and im extremely glad it was on earth (i prefer using real maps when i play the game, often liking to test my geographical knowledge with proper city names, and seeing how different history becomes) I hope that future GotMs will be similar (except for hopefully not starting out with a wimpy civ!)

EmperorGandalf said:

I found this scenario to be rather difficult (of course i am new here )

Click to expand...

I am not new here and I find this much more difficult than our typical GOTMs.

I have played about 50 turns now. I still have not fully explored Canada. I made an alliance with Indians early on. I just managed to convince the Chinese to ally with me as well. They kept saying your civilization has nothing to offer us. My power is stuck in weak.

I am at nominal war with all others. But have only fought naval fights with Spaniards and on one occasion Russians. I am trying to stay peaceful but it is very difficult. I have purchased 3 cities so far, 2 barbarian and 1 Spanish located where Haiti is. I am still in Monarchy but that will change very soon.

My main focus has been wonders. I have never played a game with such intense competition for wonders. Everyone and their brother is into building wonders. All civs except Zulu have some wonders and even the Zulu tried. As soon as a wonder becomes available several civs attempt it. Even the usually ignored ones like Shakespeare and Eiffel are already built. I have managed to grab Colossus, Marco, Copernicus, Adam Smith, and Newton. The only wonders left are the 7 in the modern era, expired Oracle, and Statue of Liberty. The statue and suffrage are currently being worked on by several civs. Even though I do not have a single factory or electronics I am saving caravans for Hoover dam which I probably have to try to build as soon as I get the right tech.

Welcome EmperorGandalf !

I completely sympathize with the observations in the last few posts. But for me, it was difficult, and rewarding, mainly because of the renaissance -industrial setting. I have no complaints about the starting position or the techs.

Spain declared war on first contact, so I felt I had to buy Amiens/Haiti. What a waste! No shields! I also looked to the Zulu's for my first victim, but it seemed I had to fight whichever AI wanted a war at the time (Spain, Ott's, then Chinese). What really bothered me was that I couldn't trade techs with them while at war. What was cool was - they are all on the same continent. So, it became easy to get tribute from most of them after I was halfway through the Zulu conquest.

Ali Ardavan said:

I have never played a game with such intense competition for wonders. Everyone and their brother is into building wonders.

Click to expand...

I beat the Russians to STWA and had no competition for MPE + Magellans. I didn't worry too much about not getting Leo's or the Happy/Science W's. I guess the latter are more important for spacemen. But I did aim to capture Mikes(Rome) + Pyr(Cairo) + Leo(China) asap. Still not sure about the values of SoL and UN and H.Dam.

Status at +1543 (50 years)
Population: 1.66M; Cities: 17; Trade routes: 14D0F; Government: Monarchy
Finance. Treasury: 27; Cost per turn: 7; Income: 133; Tax rate: 70%
Science: Total advances: 47; Advance every 705 turns; Science rate: 0%
Production: 81MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Copernicus, Adam Smith.
Units: 4 settlers (2 None), 8 Engineers, 2 Warrior, 4 Archer, 4 Musketeer, 1 Horseman, 1 None Crusader, 1 Knight, 1 Dragoon, 1 Caravel, 1 Destroyer, 2 Diplomat, 9 Caravan.

Russian: 12 cities, 44 tech, 1979g; Sun Tzu, Lighthouse;
Zulu: 9 cities, 23 tech, 654g;
Spanish: 12 cities, 49 tech, 914g; Michelangelo, Eiffel; War with Indians & Me.
Chinese: 13 cities, 46 tech, 965g; Great Wall, Shakespeare, Leo; War with Ottomans
Ottoman: 18 cities, 50 tech, 2131g; Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Library, King Richard, Bach; War with Chinese & me
Indian: 12 cities, 48 tech, 853g; Magellan; Allied with me, War with Spanish.

@ Peaster
I finished 160. and you finished 158., didn't you ?
This is a clear demonstration of the power of ICS
This is also a clear demonstration of my wrong strategical choice: attacking early is more performing than attacking late with stronger units.
That is why I have decided to play this game again (the previous one being the one I'll send to DoM, of course ).
Unfortunately, the first hut I tipped in my second game gave me Invention . Anyway, I go on playing, in order to show that rather good results can be provided by a strategy very far from ICS (14 cities when conquest started).

BTW: "worked squares" = "city size + 1" for each city.

@ Peaster
I notice that you had 52 techs after 50 turns (I was quite happy with 46).
Was it great luck with huts or what ?

@LaFayette: Yes, 1583 AD. In 1579 AD (my first post) I expected more problems finding (and getting to) the last Russian cities. But my special units, partisans and engineers, helped out more than I could imagine.

I guess you are right about attacking early. If successful, this increases your production base, gives you instant outposts for additional conquests, and it may provide side benefits like tribute and extra tech. I suppose you are thinking of this as a substitute for ICS... interesting idea, and I look forward to hear your results.

My 52 techs? Well, I used the Mangor/Grigor idea of making explorers ASAP for hut-popping. IIRC we had seafaring at the start, and there was a visible hut, so the idea seemed worthy. I was not concerned about getting bad tech, because my tech goals were pretty murky anyway. I sent one south, one north (with some warriors) and about 3 overseas. Maybe I was lucky - all I know is I popped a LOT of huts and got a lot of tech and gold that way. But I think I was still behind the AI, so making Marco helped, too. I didn't realize it would expire after a few more turns, but I am still glad I made it. After that, I made about 20 trade routes, which I will not even talk about, because everybody here knows more about trade than I do.

BTW - "is more performing" sounds a little strange to me. You could say "is more effective" or "performs better". I know you want to hear such things or I wouldn't criticize.

I just finished my second game (the one I'm not going to send to DoM ).
Conquest in 1586, which would have become a lot earlier if I had not "discovered" Invention as first hut tipped
Anyway, hat's off to Peaster (future owner of the green star, I suppose ).

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So, what can we learn from this? I notice that LaFayette's 2nd game used many artillery, engineers and spies, so I think we agree on those choices for conquest units.

He built Hoover Dam and 16 factories (cost = 3800s), which I did not. This boosted his production from about 400s/t (?) to 800s/t. I guess this is a good return, but am not too sure... most of my production was coming from rush-buying by the end, but I still finished with about 10,000g. He also built LH (probably a good idea) and Shakes (not sure).

LaFayette had a communist govt (was this mainly for the vet spies??), while I used Fundy for happiness/income. No regrets, but I don't know which govt is best for this game. Maybe someone has some insight...?

Hard to say, but I guess LaF started with the Spanish/Ott/Russians and finished with the Chinese/Zulus (?). I started with Zulu/Spain/Ott, switched to Chinese when they declared war, and finished with Russia. The Indians were irrelevant wimps, at least in my game.

I finished the game last night....what a great challenge.
We all have used different aproaches, and seems that is not one single solution.
I built MP ASAP ,and then took a day to think of my next plan, the built Leonardo.....then took a break.......I needed a Brainstorm,,,,,
MY PLAN ???
1) Conquer the Zulus ( Diplomats, and getting a good beachhead in Africa )
2) take Cairo and the Pyramids, then take the Ottomans and the Spanish
3) Conquer the Russians
4) Keep a strong alliance with China/India that allow me to trade Caravans over the Pacific
5)Conquer the Indians in 1/2 Turns, when the time was right
6) Conquer the Chinese in a turn or two....

All done before 1700....

I am very happy of how I did it....was a vary hard game to conquer the Planet, but it was done.. I have all 28 wonders , plus 10 future techs...

I never spend more than 10 hours playing a game .....but this..this was a hard ..hard game

This time spended more days than I usually do playing 4/6 hours a day !!

I LOVE IT

I have played till 1585 and have stuck with my peaceful strategy. I am nominaly at war with the Spanish, Ottomans, and Russians; but they have stopped bothering me. Maybe it is because of all those ships I sank in the Atlantic ocean. Or may be it is because my power is supreme now. I am still allied with Chinese and Indians.

Chinese are my main worry. They were the first to discover flight. They just discovered Computers and switched their wonder building activity from Cure for Cancer to SETI. I will discover space flight in 2 turns and a 600s wonder in 3 turns. I am going to make that wonder SETI instead of Apollo just to keep it off Chinese hands. The only wonders left are Oracle (expired), SETI, Apollo, Manhattan, and Cure for Cancer.

I am still expanding in the Americas. Except for Alberta, Canada is unsettled. So are US west of Rockies, Cuba, Galapogas, Hawaii, and the bulk of Amazon. Chinese have founded a tiny city in Southern California.

Im kinda wondering how the AI suddenly got so smart and tough. I usually play about King or prince level, but ive never seen such aggresive and competitive civs. even though i got far ahead technelogically, i still had many military worries, and i barely got any wonders built.
I soon became the largest and most advanced nation in the world (much good it did me :| ) and yet in 1692 a spaceship the size of a flea, controlled by the AI, magically made it to alpha centauri, while my gigantic monolithic spaceship was preparing for a short journey there. WHY DOES THE AI MAKE SUCH STUPID SLOW SMALL SPACESHIPS????? (that also somehow get there first ) Oh well it was very fun, and especially satisfying to bring a wimpy civ up to the top, especially since its one that historacally did not end up very well. at the end of the game, i had the zulus conquered, (very very easy to do, i should have done it earlier, thanks for making me realize it in the first place, everyone! ) I had australia colonized (whoopee :| ) colonies in Japan, southeast asia, africa, madagascar, cuba, other islands (oooh look at all the production NOT ) and every fertile piece of land in the americas.
This scenario was great. I could suggest some changes, but it was fun and challenging. ill probably get used to that

Oh, and can someone please help me figure out why i have an obsession with settling small islands?