I often regenerate the map to get a start I'm happy with. This may mean almost anything - sometimes I regenerate until I stop getting seafood madness starts, sometimes I specifically want coastal start, I may be looking for a start with specific resources or one without too strong ones.
There's one thing I would like with my capitols always, though: the potential to grow to size 20 and work all the tiles in the fat cross, without farming non-resource tiles (I still consider 3F0P0-1C tiles to be junk). What I mean is that taken the city BFC, when all resources are improved but no other improvements are built, the BFC including city tile should provide minimum of 40 food.
I usually proceed to consider what the city could be great at, throughout the whole game. If it can for example work 15 cottages, three mines, and two resources, it's quite clearly a cottaged commerce-capitol. OTOH if it has huge amount of food and a few hills, but not so many cottage tiles (eg. coastal seafood starts often) it may well be excellent gpf (in which case it actually won't be working all those tiles). And so on.
The capitol is a really special city.
For one, it's the first you have. So, it has to fuel the initial expansion: build some workers, settlers, escort and garrison units.
If you aim for early wonder, the capitol is probably the only city you can build that in - first wonders like Stonehenge and Great Wall may well go in 2000BC so you barely have time to kick out one settler with escort before your worker or two chop the wonder to capitol.
If you go for early rush, again capitol is your biggest city (it has one higher happy cap than others due to palace) and most likely has more / better improved tiles to work, producing more axes / chariots.
So in the earliest phase the capitol has to be production powerhouse, using all of whip, chop, and regular hammers together for highest possible production (whichever of the above is your goal).
After the earliest phase, the capitol may settle on to some duty or another, but Civil Service won't be too far to reach for, providing commerce and hammer bonus to capitol in form of Bureaucracy civic. Because of this, you probably don't want to make your capitol gpf (or you want to build palace to more suitable capitol city if you do), but rather either a production powerhouse (wondercity maybe? Or super military pump?) or more commonly, a high commerce city that with bureaucratic commerce bonus can produce half the commerce of the whole empire, either providing all gold needed or all beakers needed while the rest of the empire provides everything else.
Generally whatever role the capitol assumes during this phase will be maintained to the late game, with possible changes in case of Diplomatic victory (population boon by farming everything) or maybe in other special situations.
But for all I want my great capitols, I rarely get them. Sure, sometimes I get extraordinary ones, often allowing me to dictate the nature of the game. Sometimes I regenerate until exhaustion. More often than not I settle onto whatever I'm given, resigning to the fact that I probably will move my palace to another city later on - for as long as the capitol can fuel the early expansion.
But, what should I be thinking about things like this:
1) Gold - simply great
2) grain - again great
3) 18 forests - wonderful
But let's look at it a bit further. For one, the city won't have food positive tiles until the wheat has been farmed. It's not riverside (nor lakeside) tile, but will irrigate through city once Civil Service arrives. So, my city will be living off a 4F1P tile during the early game, giving it food peak of +4 at 1 pop. It'll be very slow in growing, and can't be whipped at all. Worker first with Agriculture as first research is the only possible choice really.
Assume agri + mining, with wheat and gold improved - the city will be doing strong +2F 5P 18C at 2 pop. The strong part there is commerce due to gold - food and hammer situation isn't that great. Growth will be very slow, as will be building anything. So initial expansion should be fueled by chopping, with capitol left to slow grow mode after that, doing... what?
Yes, what will that capitol be good for?
Six flat grasses, goldmine, wheat - +2F at 8 pop working six cottages with wheat and gold. Sounds great - certainly excellent commerce capitol (this is Darius of HRE, exploring the Mr Money with Rathaus synergy). Except that past the six grasses, we don't have food neutral tiles left, so our cottaging idea will grind to halt at three more plains cottages (assuming CS irrigating the wheat before 11pop). Sure, we could grow a bit more by farming the rest of the plains (there's total of 9 of them), but will plains farms (2F1P) really be worth it? Windmilling won't make plains hills food neutral either, so we'll be left waiting for Biology raising the farms' food yield, and possibly a food corporation like sid's sushi or cereal mills. Ermm... OK, with this plan, the capitol is good in the beginning but drifts into mediocre during midgame, with late game not really boosting it to excellency even if it can be brought to nice one again then.
As above doesn't sound great, then other possibilities? GPF is out (with what food?), so production? Wheat + Gold will be always worked in all scenarios anyway, so F+2 @ size 2 - we can add a mined plains hill to the mix for 9hpt @ 3 pop, stagnated. Uhh... Two more plains forests, each requires food so farm four grasses? Two grass farms + plains hill = 4 hammers from 3 pop, 1.33 hpt per pop. Sucks. With state property powering watermills and workshops this would all become viable. But that's endgame choice, and we want this city to be viable already before that.
So, my question would probably be: "What should starting locations like this be done with?" - my own answer being "I'll regenerate to get something more to my liking" unless I'm specifically on the mood to find out if the surrounding lands are good enough and if the capitol can fuel me for long enough to become irrelevant.
What do people expect of their capitols? What's good, what's bad, what causes you to regenerate? Or maybe the purists (who won't regenerate) would describe their ideas about how this starting location could be used for maximum efficiency?
Sorry, no save from this start, I was looking for something else and just decided to take a pic of this.
There's one thing I would like with my capitols always, though: the potential to grow to size 20 and work all the tiles in the fat cross, without farming non-resource tiles (I still consider 3F0P0-1C tiles to be junk). What I mean is that taken the city BFC, when all resources are improved but no other improvements are built, the BFC including city tile should provide minimum of 40 food.
I usually proceed to consider what the city could be great at, throughout the whole game. If it can for example work 15 cottages, three mines, and two resources, it's quite clearly a cottaged commerce-capitol. OTOH if it has huge amount of food and a few hills, but not so many cottage tiles (eg. coastal seafood starts often) it may well be excellent gpf (in which case it actually won't be working all those tiles). And so on.
The capitol is a really special city.
For one, it's the first you have. So, it has to fuel the initial expansion: build some workers, settlers, escort and garrison units.
If you aim for early wonder, the capitol is probably the only city you can build that in - first wonders like Stonehenge and Great Wall may well go in 2000BC so you barely have time to kick out one settler with escort before your worker or two chop the wonder to capitol.
If you go for early rush, again capitol is your biggest city (it has one higher happy cap than others due to palace) and most likely has more / better improved tiles to work, producing more axes / chariots.
So in the earliest phase the capitol has to be production powerhouse, using all of whip, chop, and regular hammers together for highest possible production (whichever of the above is your goal).
After the earliest phase, the capitol may settle on to some duty or another, but Civil Service won't be too far to reach for, providing commerce and hammer bonus to capitol in form of Bureaucracy civic. Because of this, you probably don't want to make your capitol gpf (or you want to build palace to more suitable capitol city if you do), but rather either a production powerhouse (wondercity maybe? Or super military pump?) or more commonly, a high commerce city that with bureaucratic commerce bonus can produce half the commerce of the whole empire, either providing all gold needed or all beakers needed while the rest of the empire provides everything else.
Generally whatever role the capitol assumes during this phase will be maintained to the late game, with possible changes in case of Diplomatic victory (population boon by farming everything) or maybe in other special situations.
But for all I want my great capitols, I rarely get them. Sure, sometimes I get extraordinary ones, often allowing me to dictate the nature of the game. Sometimes I regenerate until exhaustion. More often than not I settle onto whatever I'm given, resigning to the fact that I probably will move my palace to another city later on - for as long as the capitol can fuel the early expansion.
But, what should I be thinking about things like this:
1) Gold - simply great
2) grain - again great
3) 18 forests - wonderful
But let's look at it a bit further. For one, the city won't have food positive tiles until the wheat has been farmed. It's not riverside (nor lakeside) tile, but will irrigate through city once Civil Service arrives. So, my city will be living off a 4F1P tile during the early game, giving it food peak of +4 at 1 pop. It'll be very slow in growing, and can't be whipped at all. Worker first with Agriculture as first research is the only possible choice really.
Assume agri + mining, with wheat and gold improved - the city will be doing strong +2F 5P 18C at 2 pop. The strong part there is commerce due to gold - food and hammer situation isn't that great. Growth will be very slow, as will be building anything. So initial expansion should be fueled by chopping, with capitol left to slow grow mode after that, doing... what?
Yes, what will that capitol be good for?
Six flat grasses, goldmine, wheat - +2F at 8 pop working six cottages with wheat and gold. Sounds great - certainly excellent commerce capitol (this is Darius of HRE, exploring the Mr Money with Rathaus synergy). Except that past the six grasses, we don't have food neutral tiles left, so our cottaging idea will grind to halt at three more plains cottages (assuming CS irrigating the wheat before 11pop). Sure, we could grow a bit more by farming the rest of the plains (there's total of 9 of them), but will plains farms (2F1P) really be worth it? Windmilling won't make plains hills food neutral either, so we'll be left waiting for Biology raising the farms' food yield, and possibly a food corporation like sid's sushi or cereal mills. Ermm... OK, with this plan, the capitol is good in the beginning but drifts into mediocre during midgame, with late game not really boosting it to excellency even if it can be brought to nice one again then.
As above doesn't sound great, then other possibilities? GPF is out (with what food?), so production? Wheat + Gold will be always worked in all scenarios anyway, so F+2 @ size 2 - we can add a mined plains hill to the mix for 9hpt @ 3 pop, stagnated. Uhh... Two more plains forests, each requires food so farm four grasses? Two grass farms + plains hill = 4 hammers from 3 pop, 1.33 hpt per pop. Sucks. With state property powering watermills and workshops this would all become viable. But that's endgame choice, and we want this city to be viable already before that.
So, my question would probably be: "What should starting locations like this be done with?" - my own answer being "I'll regenerate to get something more to my liking" unless I'm specifically on the mood to find out if the surrounding lands are good enough and if the capitol can fuel me for long enough to become irrelevant.
What do people expect of their capitols? What's good, what's bad, what causes you to regenerate? Or maybe the purists (who won't regenerate) would describe their ideas about how this starting location could be used for maximum efficiency?
Sorry, no save from this start, I was looking for something else and just decided to take a pic of this.
)
