Which government first? Monarchy or The Republic?

I've been struggling with deciding. I go back and forth a lot on this. Monarchy seems better for early expansion but I end up getting crippled by high corruption. I find The Republic allows me to stay competitive even if I have to run early luxuries. This is at Deity level by the way.

As a basic rule of thumb, I would suggest to go for monarchy first, then switch to republic "when you are ready", this means, you have some happiness control by HG, and Michelangelo (or maybe only temples) since martial law runs out, can afford to spend two foods for settlers, deal with away-unhappiness, can afford shield support for your units (maybe disband them, since they do no longer provide martial law).

I think in the early era, the advantages of monarchy outweigh the disadvantages, especially at deity: Martial law, settlers only eat once, three units without support vs less corruption and more trade arrows. You will catch up later.

Major Advantage said:

As a basic rule of thumb, I would suggest to go for monarchy first, then switch to republic "when you are ready", this means, you have some happiness control by HG, and Michelangelo (or maybe only temples) since martial law runs out, can afford to spend two foods for settlers, deal with away-unhappiness, can afford shield support for your units (maybe disband them, since they do no longer provide martial law).

I think in the early era, the advantages of monarchy outweigh the disadvantages, especially at deity: Martial law, settlers only eat once, three units without support vs less corruption and more trade arrows. You will catch up later.

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This is a great and detailed answer Major Advantage . I will add only that in my opinion in many situations including - and i would say especially - in deity as opposed to emperor, skipping Monarchy and going strait into Republic has substantial advantages of it's own along with the acknowledged setbacks which you so excellently described. i make this deity vs. emperor distinction because in deity with lots of cities we are forced to build tons of early warriors in Monarchy whereas in emperor there is a lot more breathing room. But even still, eventually when the city count reaches a certain point (which for me and many others happens very fast) tons of warriors are needed, even in emperor... instead of being able to focus more purely on settler building.

In Republic, the needed lux rate of maybe 40% (upon having a certain number of unhappiness triggering cities) is essentially free when we compare it to the limited number of arrows available in Monarchy, meaning that the value of 60% combined tax and science rate in Republic is comparable to the 100% combined tax and science rates in Monarchy. Also the civ saves on having to build dozens of warriors and can focus much more intently on building more fast settlers. Rep with HG and no buildings allows several cities to celebrate early to size 5 and Rep in Deity with about 36 critical mass cities can do this even without HG or any buildings... where decent trades can be made from several cities... and whereas in Monarchy once a certain number of cities are reached, the cities are generally forced to stay very small to satisfy the anarchists, even with HG (unless an expensive lux rate was to be employed which often seems in Monarchy to not be worth it).

Of course in a tiny map game with multiple nearby enemies (as in gotm 171) and with barbs to factor in (depending on barb setting), some games require us to have lots of defended cities as well as units away securing key mountains and hills, factors which provide a lot of additional weight to choosing Monarchy first. For this primary reason as well as because it was emperor level, i chose Monarchy first in gotm 171 in spite of being a great enthusiast of starting in Republic .

i built a lot of very fast cities requiring a lot warriors as well as needing to keep these cities small (primarily size 2 max even with HG) with more settler building to keep the anarchists satisfied at zero percent lux. As one primary setback to starting in Monarchy, i felt it was not worth making a single "same land" size 2 or 3 trade, so i held back on trading until i could switch to Republic and celebrate to size 5s and 8's with HG and Mikes. This extremely low Monarchy trade value factor would be less of an obvious obstacle in a game with separate lands as well as the greater potential for longer distance trades... but no matter how you slice it, the trades in an early Republic are still far greater, in most cases twice as good or better which leads more quickly to an explosively thriving civ.

There are nuances to playing early Republic which can be embraced that make it work better. One of which i like to utilize at a certain point is allow most cities (with definite exceptions) to celebrate to size 4 or better before building settlers there... keeping them at least at size 3 so they are in a position to very quickly be restored through celebration growth to 4+ again before then building more settlers. But in the earliest stages, it is essential to rush settlers from nearly every size 2 city as fast as possible.

As one general rule, the smaller the map and the higher the barb setting, the more risky it is to start in Republic over Monarchy since we don't want to find ourselves in very early republic with a huge demand for lots of military units. Also i feel that Monarchy in emperor is a lot nicer than Monarchy in deity, whereas in Republic this setting doesn't make nearly as much difference. At a certain number of cities that would overload a civ in Monarchy, Rep works extremely well since anarchists which are immensely more responsive to the luxury rate are extremely helpful.

One additional important factor (among others) worthy of consideration is that Monarchy provides superior extortion potential from the ai, though this is not entirely absent in Republic through such actions as goading them into war by demanding they remove their troops and then saying no to peace and awaiting their offers to sweeten the deal with gold.

Overall i feel the choice of which initial government works best is not a clear black and white issue and is influenced by various factors, but i tend to favor Republic in most cases for my style of play .

It can be hard to decide if Republic in CIV2 is meant to represent Enlightenment-era post-monarchist governments, or Roman-style, pre-Caesar senatorial power...I guess with certain wonders in tow, it can mean either...

Given the early stage on the tech tree it appears, I'd guess that Sid Meier and the MPS crew intended a pre-Caesar Roman Senatorial Republic as a default (also, the default title 'Consul), but, in a long game where you switch back and forth between governments several times, and certainly in regards to scenarios, the government as a game mechanic and concept is quite flexible.

CurtSibling said:

It can be hard to decide if Republic in CIV2 is meant to represent Enlightenment-era post-monarchist governments, or Roman-style, pre-Caesar senatorial power...

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I clearly remember reading somewhere in the documentation that came with the game that despotism, monarchy, and republic are considered ancient forms of government and democracy, communism, and fundamentalism are considered modern forms of government. This is also consistent with Patine's keen observations.

WildPony said:

I will add only that in my opinion in many situations including - and i would say especially - in deity as opposed to emperor, skipping Monarchy and going strait into Republic has substantial advantages of it's own along with the acknowledged setbacks ...

Overall i feel the choice of which initial government works best is not a clear black and white issue and is influenced by various factors, but i tend to favor Republic in most cases for my style of play .

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While I agree that the choice of the initial government depends on the circumstances I tend to be at the opposite end of the spectrum favoring monarchy over republic as the first choice of government in the overwhelming majority of games. Besides what is pointed out already I would like to mention the following:
1. Monarchy is one tech cheaper than Republic so you can get there faster. There is no question by anyone that switching away from despotism should be your top priority.
2. The difference in the prereq techs of Monarchy vs Republic is: burial vs. writing and literacy. Burial is a starting tech whereas writing and Literacy are are later techs. You are far more likely to obtain burial from a rival you meet early on or from a hut than either writing or literacy. The latter is a prereq for Great Library which the AI loves to build and thus not very likely to trade even when they have it.
3. Supported units from a hut that is not close by, are more likely to cause support problems in Republic than in Monarchy. In early game your cities produce only a few shields and it does not take much to go below zero in republic having to disband units.
4. shields are worth 2 to 2.5 arrows in the early game. With no infrastructure your arrow is worth 1 coin and since all you (should) build are units, every shield costs you 2 to 2.5 arrows. In a city of size 1 or 2 your extra arrows will not even justify a single supported unit and in early game all your cities are size 1 or size 2. With few cities, it is typical for every city to be supporting 1-2 units.

Notice that my arguments are all about the early early game. In contrast, many of WildPony's argument are about later stages of the early game. Surely by the time you have caravans you can afford to use for trade (as opposed to building early wonders which is often a race with the AI) and wonders like the gardens already built republic makes much more sense.

I'm usually looking to get to the republic as early as I can The support costs i.e. the extra shields and food can be worked around I know one or two ways to get the most out of settlers and land improvements. The disbanding of units made possible by switching to the republic can help make a wonder. I won't need Monarchy till way down the line skipping tech like that makes it tradable at a time you need to manipulate the tech path.But above all things, I want to be celebrating in the republic as soon as possible.
However, if you are having trouble making it work You could try jacking up lux rate to celebrate in Monarchy which will give the effect of being in Republic once in the celebration period you can afford to dail back the lux a little as the effect of producing more trade arrows should allow for a lower lux rate. You will grow faster with the extra food produced too.
One more thing once you discover Monarchy you are inviting stronger Barbs that are a little more expensive to bribe. I love bribing barb horsemen because i can sometimes strike a leader with one.