C2C - Galactic Era

Anyway, My own theory on how this would work is to start off the game with a menu that lists extra planetary things as the local star and then what ever moon(s) circle the planet the Civs are on. As time goes on the largest/brightest objects in the solar system are added to the in solar system menu. The details of which are rather vague until astronomy comes around and starts filling in details. Once you get observatories then random discover heavenly bodies get a bit of detail and other are found.

We have some of this already mapped out ...

- Mysticism (Unlocks Sun and Moon)

- Stargazing (Unlocks Visible Planets, Brightest Stars and Comets)

- Calendar (Unlocks Solar Cycles and Solar Cycles)

- Astrology (Unlocks Star Constellations, Visible Planet Cycles and Comet Cycles)

- Astronomy [With Observatory] (Unlocks Other Solar System Planets, Asteroid Belt, Nearest Galaxies, Sunspots, Lunar Topography, Terrestrial Planet Topography and Gas Giant Moons)

- Radio Astronomy [With Radio Telescope] (Unlocks Pulsars and Quasars)

- Astrogeology (Detailed Planetary Topography)

See this post for more details.

@AIAndy

Do you have the skills to make Spacepedia? If so can you start on it?

Also is it possible to have techs discover randomly generated things? For instance at Mysticism I would like players to discover the sun and moon. However I would like the type of Star be generated from a random list of possible suns. I would also like it to generate 1 to 2 moons. Thus you have a small chance of having 2 moons orbiting your planet.

Is this possible for you to do?
 
I have some old ATOM resources that Civ_Fuhrer have to me. It has stuff like star generation, random planet generation etc. I here some examples ...

ATOM_CIV4StarInfos.xml
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<!-- edited with Notepad -->
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4: Rise of Mankind 2.9 -->
<!-- -->
<!-- -->
<!-- PlanetTypes Schema -->
<Civ4StarInfos xmlns="x-schema:ATOM_PlanetsSchema.xml">
<StarInfos>
<StarInfo>
<StarType>TYPE_STAR_SOL</StarType>
<bStar>1</bStar>
<bSuperNova>0</bSuperNova>
<bBlackHole>0</bBlackHole>
<iStarHeat>20</iStarHeat>
<iStarSize>18</iStarSize>
<iStarAge>4000</iStarAge>
</StarInfo>
</StarInfos>
</Civ4StarInfos>

ATOM_CIV4PlanetInfos.xml
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<!-- edited with Notepad -->
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4: Rise of Mankind 2.9 -->
<!-- -->
<!-- -->
<!-- PlanetTypes Schema -->
<Civ4PlanetInfos xmlns="x-schema:ATOM_PlanetsSchema.xml">
<PlanetInfos>
<PlanetInfo>
<PlanetType>TYPE_PLANET_EARTH</PlanetType>
<bMoon>0</bMoon>
<bTerrestrial>1</bTerrestrial>
<bAsteroid>0</bAsteroid>
<bAstRing>0</bAstRing>
<bGasGiant>0</bGasGiant>
<bComet>0</bComet>
<bTectonics>1</bTectonics>
<bHaveRing>0</bHaveRing>
<bHaveOxygen>1</bHaveOxygen>
<bInnerSystem>1</bInnerSystem>
<iWaterLevel>70</iWaterLevel>
<iAge>6000</iAge>
<iSize>800</iSize>
<iTemp>55</iTemp>
<iGroundRadius>100</iGroundRadius>
<iLandMass>30</iLandMass>
<iAtmosphere>40</iAtmosphere>
<iSunDistance>52</iSunDistance>
<Resources>
<Resource>BONUS_METHANE</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_LEAD</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_OBSIDIAN</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_SULPHER</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_GOLD</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_GEMS</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_URANIUM</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_STONE</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_OIL</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_MARBLE</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_COPPER</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_COAL</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_IRON</Resource>
<Resource>BONUS_BAUXITE</Resource>
</Resources>
</PlanetInfo>
</PlanetInfos>
</Civ4PlanetInfos>

I also attached some of the modular files. Hopefully someone who knows what they are doing can help get them converted.
 
i havent understand are you going to do something about galactic era

Back in RoM Civ_Fuhrer and I planned on making an add-on mod called "Accent of Mankind" or ATOM. it was to add the galactic era to the game. However progress was slow and abandoned, Civ5 came out and people went away for awhile. When I came back I joined up with strategyonly with his Prehistoric NWA (and DH's stuff) and I brought my own HAND mods. I had been wanting to do a prehistoric mod too so I helped work all that out and then we formed a new mod called "Caveman to Cosmos" which had the redone prehistoric era, plus my mods plus the intention to eventually add ATOM's galactic era stuff to the mod.

So far all we got is the techs put in which included the origin ATOM techs plus more for C2C and of course the new era (and era music) too. The astropedia and other features were not developed enough by Civ_Fuhrer, so while all the stuff was planned out months ago no one has had the skills to add it to C2C. Which is why I have been asking AIAndy to pick up where Civ_Fuhrer left off. I have no idea how to add new menus and stuff, which is why I have not done much with the galactic era so far.

I hope that clears some things up.
 
I have thought about it a bit and here are some ideas:
Instead of having separate XMLs for suns, planets and the like I would suggest having only one for natural space entities, which includes galaxies, stars/star systems, planets and moons (might be useful to put in something like galactic sectors between galaxies and stars).
The XMLs for these objects describe types with an image and properties.
In the game itself the actual instances will have a parent object they orbit around, a distance and an angle. That means 2d polar coordinates relative to their parent which also makes the universe 2d for simplicity.

The further away, the less detail should be used. So while you found a colony on a moon in your own solar system, the colony would be founded on a far galaxy as a whole.
So with far objects, the tree ends further up and you can only found colonies on the leafs.
Colonies can build buildings and units, but which depends on the type of colony.
Both colonies and space units are always on a space entity, either orbiting or grounded.

If you have a grounded colony, you also own the orbit. Entering a slot that contains a hostile unit or colony starts a battle until only one side remains. You can only enter the ground of a space entity through its orbit.
Earth is an exception. We could either introduce an orbit layer all over the normal map similar to the mod Conflict on Chiron (but then we need actual models for space ships instead of just 2d images) or just have earth orbit as a slot where peace is enforced.

Units can have actions that can be used in the right cirumstances (to found a colony, to build a space station, to use a planet destroyer weapon from orbit, ...).

So the XMLs would be:
SpaceEntityInfo.xml
ColonyInfo.xml
ColonyBuildingInfo.xml
SpaceUnitInfo.xml
SpaceActionInfo.xml

Space entities, colonies and space units would also be actual objects in the game.
 
I am not exactly sure what you mean. What do you mean by "parent object"? Are we talking about something on the map or something off the map? Also how would you ever back up the map far enough to see this stuff. If you back up the map too much you get the global view.

I think it would be much better to have non-map outterspace. Even if it has to be done through say building dependency trees such as you build a spaceport and then all colony buildings depend upon the spaceport. Such as ...

Spaceport -> Lunar Base -> Lunar Colony -> Lunar Spaceport

And so on. I would rather not do it that way since for one buildings can be destroyed and two you cannot have it attacked in space.

Also I would like to factory in the different types of space propulsion for sending probes and spaceships to different places in space.

Spoiler :
Solid Rocket = 7km/s, 1mN (mega newton = 1,000,000 newtons), very limited fuel, used for moon(s)

Liquid Rocket = 14km/s, 1mN, very limited fuel, used for moon(s)

Ion Thruster = 600km/s, 1cN (centi-newton) used for solar system traversal

Solar Sails (only be used to reduce inner solar system maintenance)

VASIMR = 900km/s, 1kN settle Alpha Centauri or equivalent

Magnetic Sails (only be used to reduce overall solar system maintenance)

Nuclear Pulse Propulsion = 15,000km/s, 10tN trade with Alpha Centauri more efficiently but cannot settle with since thrust would crush a person.

ACNPP = 62,000km/s, 60tN trading only

Antimatter Rocket = 100,000km/s, 1pN (petaNewton) strictly terrestrial probes, thrust would crush anything not actually attached to the craft.

Neutrino Oscillation Pulse = 9,000tm/s (terameters) Pulse only lasts one second, but must be within a black hole's gravity range to enter a wormhole or craft would self terminate from thrust.

Wormhole traversal (needs Neutrino Oscillation Pulse to enter successfully or craft will be destroyed by the singularity, otherwise wormholes would only be used for fast communications)

Folding Space = fold limited amounts of space at any one time, roughly 1ly - 100ly (light years)(only enough to explore galaxy, game winner)

Space Creasing = fold larger amounts of space at any one time, roughly 1,000ly - 1,000,000,000ly(only enough for intra-galactic trading)
 
I am not exactly sure what you mean. What do you mean by "parent object"? Are we talking about something on the map or something off the map? Also how would you ever back up the map far enough to see this stuff. If you back up the map too much you get the global view.

I think it would be much better to have non-map outterspace. Even if it has to be done through say building dependency trees such as you build a spaceport and then all colony buildings depend upon the spaceport. Such as ...

Spaceport -> Lunar Base -> Lunar Colony -> Lunar Spaceport

And so on. I would rather not do it that way since for one buildings can be destroyed and two you cannot have it attacked in space.

Also I would like to factory in the different types of space propulsion for sending probes and spaceships to different places in space.

I am not talking about the map approach but the non map approach.
The parent object of a planet is its star system (or star). The parent object of a star is its galaxy (or the galactic sector if we insert that in there).
Despite being non map you definitely do not want to handle every single planet in a far galaxy. Not even in your own galaxy you want to do that.

So to keep at least somewhat close to what the real numbers are, you can build bases on moons in your home system or in near star systems. The far star systems of your galactic sector only get planets. The near galactic sectors get stars to colonize (meaning you colonize the entire star system and all buildings in that type of colony represent more than for a planetary colony) but for the far galactic sectors you get to colonize the galactic sector as a whole and so on.

So you have the possibility to build lunar colonies in your own system and near star systems.
You get to build planetary colonies in your own system and all systems of your galactic sector.
Then you can build system colonies in the near galactic sectors and sector colonies in the far ones and the near galaxies.
In the far galaxies you build galactic colonies.

The buildings that would be built in the different colonies are on entirely different scales. While you might build a spaceport on a moon or planet colony you might build a huge traveling facility based on a black hole in a galactic colony.
 
Just some thoughts from me about the System of AIAndy:
The Problem is that if the player owns a complet Galaxie it would be problematic how it works out with the other Empiers! I.e. how can the Dutch "own" a Quadrant in the Galaxie, the German a other Quadrant then the rest just some System but the American the complet Galaxie.
But I think the system can work if you keep have one "object" of each level up to the maximal scale of a Quadrant of the Home Galaxie. Like 1 Moon, 1 Planet, 1 Starsystem, 1 Star Cluster, 1 Quadrant of the Galaxie.
 
Sounds like a one life bearing planet scenario... for multiple galaxies. You'll have to run into aliens at some level of that scale.

See the issue becomes that there is no logical reason to go to that scale... once you have planet destroyers... the game ends from a random event. Someone makes a transporter ship and teleports entire nations of people into a railgun and skips them off the atmosphere. Biological or nuclear warfare or nanoweapons kill earth and the game ends. You'll need to make an entirely new game engine to make it more that 'meh' or just a space mod with a freakish fixation on the homeworld.

Your better off making that part of the game about getting colonies to the level of self-substaning independence and then switching to sending military and space assests to keep it defended. The space race is won by getting X amount of colonies to that level and/or its a way to have the mod end in a cold war of some kind and its a mastery victory thing.

The way I'm hearing now might as well be a Masters of Orion or, in an insane world, a weird combo of Age of Empires 3 and Dwarf Fortress in Space mod. At that point someone has to generate the reports coming back or you'll need a separate Mod/option to play as a colony of a Civ from a different game.
 
@AIAndy

Well like I said as you go out farther your colonies get bigger. Lunar colonies are like cities, solar system colonies are like regions, other near star colonies are entire planets, and as you go even farther you can take over entire solar systems. This is what the colony ships are for ...

Lunar Colony = Colony for the Moon. (Additional buildings are needed)
Planetary Colony = Colony for other planets. (Additional buildings are needed)
Colony Arcology = An entire city in one. (All building are included)
Launch Arcology = A mobile city.
Seedship = Colonize an entire planet.
Advanced Seedship = Colonize an entire solar system.

The space race is won by getting X amount of colonies to that level and/or its a way to have the mod end in a cold war of some kind and its a mastery victory thing.

The space race is getting moved to late game for an trans-dimensional space race. One where you leave our universe and get to another. Since there is no way for us to know what is beyond our universe I think this is a perfect way to keep the space race winning condition.

So far all i have is ...

- SS Casting = Megastrong Alloys
- SS Cockpit = Galactic Federation
- SS Docking Bay = Attometer Engineering
- SS Life Support = Advanced Seedships
- SS Stasis Chamber = Cryogenics? (maybe something completely different so no slumbering)
- SS Engines = Endogenous Euclidean Propulsion
- SS Thrusters = Endogenous Euclidean Propulsion
 
*Looks at Hydromancer X's post*

So basically the post C2C mod is going to be the mutant offspring between of Age of Empires 3 and Dwarf Fotress.
 
After the galatic era being shown here and how the space race is colonizing another dimension, people are going to naturally make a sequel which consists of running said extradimensional colony. This is only natural progression.

What would make it different from normal C2C is that you start with some advanced units, likely one of which can be sacrificed for a wonder to make a receiving portal (for direct shipments) or a beacon (so newly interdimensional ships can find you). Either way a fancy really, really long supply chain. Hense its part AOE3.

I highly doubt that such a prototype portal will have energy requirements that are easy to pull off. For an interdimensional portal the energy requirements are too high for anything you can logically send through the IP without overloading one of the two. I'm guessing the sending side of the IP will be a space based portal that colony ships fly through. Something with that much energy and that new is going to generate a militant NIMBY effect. Only said backyard is dozens of light years wide.

Once your there your going to be running a colony into some random place way the hell over there (for an expanded definition of over there). So a small group brave settlers taking over an exotic local will only random outside resupply and reenforcements. Weird and odd if not deadly things will happen... so Dwarf Fortress in Space. Cue things ending in a rather warped dig site or a new colony.
 
I would have to come out against the AIAndy proposal. The main problem with it is that if we are saying that civ 1 owns 3 planets and civ 2 owns 2 planets and 5 asteroid mines, but civ 3 owns an entire star cluster, civ 3 should logically wipe the floor with 1 and 2 no matter what they have on "earth" . This would mean either a totally illogical strategy of "beeline for star cluster tech" or an equally abused idea that Civ 1 or 2 could hold their own against civ 3.

A much better idea would be to do the galactic era in stages, ie once a civ owns x planets all civs switch from 'planets' to 'stars' as a unit of ownership, with their star having a population equal to the number of planets they controled. This and future transitions would enable new sets of units, buildings, projects, etc for everyone in space, yet heavy colonizers would still have an advantage. These transitions could even become their own eras, splitting the Galactic era into 4 or 5 eras. (and obviously necessatating lots of new techs.)
 
Isn't CIV IV by desing problematic for Civ's falling to fare behind the Technology level?
So if a Civ is still on Planetar Technology level when the other Civs play at Star Cluster Tech level the this weak civ either have to find a way to catch up fast or it will earlyer or later lose.
 
Isn't CIV IV by desing problematic for Civ's falling to fare behind the Technology level?
So if a Civ is still on Planetar Technology level when the other Civs play at Star Cluster Tech level the this weak civ either have to find a way to catch up fast or it will earlyer or later lose.

Yeah, but not so much that 1 tech means a 1000fold increase in power. That is how much difference owning a single star cluster is compared to owning anything else before that, if we wanted to be realistic. In my plan, being ahead on tech would still be advantageous, but not to such extremes.
 
Its allways depend on how you scale. Maybe there is a need for a step more betwean Starsystem and Starcluster so it "only" scales around maybe 4-5 to the next level. And a starting FTL Ship dont need to be so strong as a Strong System Only Ship because the FTL ship need a loot of room for its drivesystem.
 
This is basically why I said that with extra solar colonies the goal should be to get them self substaning and then defend them til they are able to defend themselves. The mega seed ships to inhabit a star cluster would need enough population to basically end a Civs ability to have a home world presence. With the colonization method as described, I can't see a game without the likelyhood that several events are involved on what happened to said seed ships... and realistically they should have a real chance of exploding, getting lost, or the like.

The idea is to get a breeding population out there, the distances are too long to function until wormholes otherwise.
 
Seconded, that mod contains reams of stuff we could plunder. Some of it would require DLL work, but lots could be copy-pasted with few adjustments straight into C2C.

As a postscript I've been hoping for the SMAC concept of orbital buildings to be added. This might be the big thing for V20.

:eek::sad::o


This is an impertinence, ... plagiarism, at least you could ask.
Paaa....plunder....tztzz....
Ich werde euch im Auge behalten...
I will keep an eye...
 
A. I am not a dev on this mod , just a fan pitching in his 2cp on it's future.

B. This was NOT added in v20

C. I would hope that when the team adds stuff from other mods they get the appropriate permissions.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
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