A Question About Tweaking Religion

werewabbit

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
13
Hey first of all, I just wanna say I love this mod. I basically only play this when I play Civ. and I've been doing it since I got the game so, yeah man thanks a bunch this is my favourite. I really appreciate you coming out and doing an amazing mod like this.

I'm not sure if it's included, but generally when I play, unless I expand REALLY far I don't get that many revolutions. Now it's not like I'm complaining too much, but what my question is, would there be anyway to make so having more then one religion in your city would give a chance for the city to sky-rocket on your revolutions index (it'd accumulate way faster or something like that), perhaps to the point where it would take alot of bribing and management to keep ahold of? Now, I totally understand: this isn't for everyone, this is something for me. This is mainly because I see that, In Civ. 4 religion was built all optimistic-like and it just adds a flavourful aspect to the game as well as a gold aspect. Well, I guess I'm a little pessimistic and I say, if there's more then one in a city they'd fight.

Now, I'm guessing I'll have to work with some of the python here, and I seriously have no idea what to do with that. Even if I do figure it out, I'll have a rough time trying to figure out how to compile it but I'm sure I can figure out a way- somehow. Any other helpful prods in this direction would also be appreciated.

As for the main question, I actually want it to be a drag to have more then one religion in a city. Now obviously there'd have to be a way to get rid of this, and I'm thinking perhaps I'll use one of those Inquisition Mod-packs (even though I dislike them slightly) or I'll find some mod-pack that decays religion overtime so I'm not screwed for the entire game if some jerk comes and spreads his religion in my city, but you know that's just adding a few extra lines in and again, compiling it so. Yeah, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks a bunch by the way for making such a great mod.
 
I'm pretty sure this is currently how the mod works. I frequently see the AI have revolutions that appear to be religion based. I make an effort to make all of my cities into my state religion and keep others out. I also send missionaries to AI cities that are likely to revolt (far from capital, unhappy et cetera) to further encourage revolutions.
 
Yeah, it's definitely already in the code. If you wanted to make it stronger, you'd just have to hunt down where the code concerning rev factors is located and give multiple religions a higher value towards the rev index.
 
Perfect ^_^ cause whatI really want to do is to make it stronger. I suppose I can control-f but, where do you think this might be? As a passing idea. I've never actually sifted through Rev's python before >_> (perhaps there's only one or a few and this seems like a stupid question XD.

Thank you for the replies.
 
One way that doesn't even involve modifying the code is to increase the ReligionModifier in Revolution.ini ... it will make both good and bad stronger (set to 2.0 for twice as bad/good, etc).

This effect can also be influence be changing a couple fields inside the civics xml file. The new fields are described in an xml faq that comes with the mod, but some interesting ways to achieve what you're looking for would be to set <fRevIdxBadReligionMod> to 0.5 or something for Despotism and Hereditary Rule ... this would make different religions 50% worse under those civics but not in other circumstances (additive effect with that from religious civics). For this variable effect is to multiply by (1.0 + sum of <fRevIdxBadReligionMod> for all civics). You could also increase the values given for the religion civics (other than Free Religion ...).

If you do want to check out the code, the part you're probably most interested in starts on line 1392 of Revolution.py.
 
Speaking of religion, it would be wonderous if this mod would incorporate Inquisitor functions. Getting rid of those pesky religions would help prevent civil wars.
 
I do have a complaint about this.

I am currently playing the RoM-mod, where revolutions have been included (via Kalimakhus' stuff). So far, so good.

Yet, as I am currently playing a more than lucky game, I was able to found all six current religions.
Now, being in the middle game, my holy cities slowly start to revolt one after the other, as obviously there is always (except for one) a different state religion. Having a large empire, I have enough ressources (and of course, temples) to make them eternally happy.
Yet, they are revolting. This is true, as I said, for the holy cities. The other ones are doing fine (at least at the moment).

I understand the idea behind the concept: different religions may be conflicting with each other. Yet, my gripe is that this component is in clear contradiction with the main setup of the game. Temples shall make your people happy, allowing your cities to grow. Monasteries shall give you additional science. Cathedrals shall give you additional culture.
A holy city should be a money generator.

All this does not work anymore, thus making any religion-based strategy obsolete.

Now, one could say that in that case you should not found a new religion. But this is no solution, as it may happen that the AI does found different religions. And in any occurrence of founding more than just one religion, you (or the AI) will be in trouble.
Furthermore (I haven't reached this point yet), I am unsure about the Free Religion civic.

In total, it seems that this part of the revolutions breaks game concepts and I would like to request a change making it that if there is enough happiness in such a city, it will not occur anymore.
Maybe you should have at least +2 :) net, to avoid the revolutions.
 
You can mod out the religion effects if you don't like them. Just open up the revolutions.ini file and find the part about "religion modifier" and change it as much as you want.
 
Part of the idea behind Revolutions is to make the gameplay more dynamic and realistic. It is hard to control a very large empire without rebellions, for instance. But this applies with religion too. I don't think it should be easy for anyone to have a country that founds all the religions, because if you look at the actual world you can see that they are pretty spread out, although most major world religions were originally eastern or middle-eastern. Besides, the government of a people that are constantly in religious turmoil will probably try to control them and keep them from founding new religions and further unstabilizing themselves.

Regardless though, sometimes you do get lucky and found several religions or take control of their holy cities in the early game (I've done it several times before). The best thing to do is to quickly get to free religion because then no one will revolt for religious purposes. This is realistic, for instance, the Roman Empire, though they originally worshiped the Roman pantheon, had to allow for so many new religions that soon any religion became legitimate. The Shwedagon Paya is good for this since it unlocks all the religion civics early on in the game.
 
Prior to Free Religion, you can make use of Hereditary Rule and calm your people down.

Nevertheless, it still is annoying that you are in danger of revolts of cities where you have +4 happy faces...
 
A modifier should be added, so that you don't get unrest from other religions if you control their holy city (you can install puppet religious leaders etc). That way founding a holy city is (almost) always good.

Also your relations with the owner of the holy city should be important on the negative effect from non-state religions. That way religious wars can emerge or different religions can stay friendly side-by-side.
 
Yes, because owning Jerusalem has been a calming influence on all the empires that have held it, and lead to nothing but religious tolerance.

Sorry, 'No'
 
I like the idea of relations with the founder of a religion affecting relations with all civs with that state religion. Currently two relgions are rarely friendly with each other. If two civs have all postives except relgion, the relgion negative should decrease. This should also affect religious revolts. Friendly religions would have less of a negative effect even if there are lots of them in your city. A relgion you've been waging holy war against, on the other hand, would be troublesome.
 
Yes, because owning Jerusalem has been a calming influence on all the empires that have held it, and lead to nothing but religious tolerance.

Sorry, 'No'
But the holy city of Catholicism was rome, which indeed has been very important. Control of or relations with the papacy was very important historically for stability. Likewise constantinople was important for the orthodox. In civ both are called simply christianity though, so some compromise is needed for historical accuracy, so to say.

Jerusalem isn't the founding city of Islam. But Mecca and Medina seem important to saudi stability. Likewise Jerusalem is important to the Jewish population.

I think it fits history pretty well, and is good for game mechanics.
 
But all of these examples are of countries controlling their own religion's holy city to keep their nation stable. This is already in effect in the mod.
 
But all of these examples are of countries controlling their own religion's holy city to keep their nation stable. This is already in effect in the mod.

Other examples are more rare, but we do have the ottoman empire, which controlled the greek orthodox church.

On the other hand, jerusalem had their share of jewish revolts in the roman empire.

Perhaps a calming factor but not completely eliminating the religious instability?
 
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