RBW4 - It's a scary world out there

Well, we need economical development and we have no idea what other sites across AI, we did not scout them. But main reason is that we can not affort to far away cities, or maintance will kill as. By the look of it if there any cites avalible they will be too far away.
 
Turn 0, 1800 BC: Everything looks good. Beijing's borders will pop this turn.
IT- Beijing's borders expand.

Turn 1, 1760 BC:
IT- Beijing Settler -> Monument (3 turns) The extra culture this early means faster doubling and more pressure on Toku's 3rd city.

Turn 2, 1720 BC: Settler N-NE to warrior. Worker heads back towards Beijing.

Turn 3, 1680 BC: Warrior & Settler NE. Guangzhou founded, begins obelisk (5 turns). Guangzhou borrows the copper.
IT- Slider auto-drops to 50% research due to maintenance.

Turn 4, 1640 BC:
IT- Beijing Monument -> Warrior (2 turns)

Turn 5, 1600 BC:
IT Saladin adopts Organized Religion

Turn 6, 1560 BC: Worker is on the copper, kicks back for a turn until The Wheel is complete.
IT- Research: The Wheel -> Pottery (13 turns)
Beijing Warrior -> Settler (10 turns) It'll speed up when we take the copper back
Shanghai Warrior -> Worker (9 turns) I'm not sure this is wise, as we could build them faster in Beijing.

Turn 7, 1520 BC: Warrior in Beijing NE. Worker begins road on the copper.
IT- Gaungzhou Monument -> Warrior (15 turns)

Turn 8, 1480 BC: Guangzhou gives the copper back to Beijing which speeds the settler up to 7 turns. Warrior N. It's about to get real interesting. Shanghai's culture is about to pop, so I'm curious where Monte's archer/settler go to. Same deal with Washington, who has an archer stuck on a single tile to our north. He'll get teleported somewhere.
IT- Talk about luck, Monte's archer/settler went back home, so now we just have one of Mansa's archers trapped. We also have a barb warrior appear outside of Gangzhou.

Turn 9, 1440 BC: Worker finishes the road on the copper and moves south to begin a road on the wheat. Warrior moves NE into Gangzhou to help with its defense.

This is interesting. Check out the percentage of Japanese in Tokyo.



IT- The barb warrior passes Gangzhou up and moves west of the city (towards the copper).

Turn 10, 1400 BC: I don't like the odds, but we can't afford to lose the copper, so I attack the barb warrior with a 32.2% chance of success and we get....



:woohoo: 4 XP!!!

Notes:
  • Tokyo is now at only 5% Japanese. I don't recall ever seeing a city flip this early, so I'm rather curious at what impact this has.
  • Copper is connected to Beijing
  • I don't like the Warrior build in Gangzhou, so the next player can feel free to switch it if they want.
  • Research wise I'm thinking Writing after Pottery for the libraries. It'll help boost research and earn us an additional +2 :culture:/t. Don't forget the :culture: doubling bonus after 1000 years.
  • We should probably consider converting some of these farmed grass tiles into cottages, as we seriously need the :commerce:.
  • Iron Working is something else we're going to need soon, but I hate to research it when we could trade for it. It's just we need the ability to chop junlge to gain the gems and ivory.
  • Fishing is something else we could use for the fish.

With maintenance the way it is, I'm hesitant to build our next city, but we need to grab the land. I'd suggest here for our fourth site.



It'll run a culture battle with Monte's capitol, but its about the best spot up there. We could take the plains tile in the northeastern corner, but I'd rather be able to share the ivory if possible. Any other suggestions?

Roster:
  • Methos - Just Played
  • Kodii - Up!
  • Bede - On Deck
  • 3Amoor
  • Sunrise089
  • Mutineer

Edit: Whoops, forgot to attach the save.

Here's the 1400 BC Save.
 
Kodii said:
If Tokyo flips, do we want to keep it?
Click to expand...

I don't believe I've ever seen a city flip this early and I can't recall when the earliest I've seen it. For discussion sake though, I'm not sure. I'm not expecting it to flip this early, so I didn't really look at it. I guess it largely depends on whether it has any sea resources. If it does I'd say take it, if not, I'm not sure we want to deal with the maintenance cost. :hmm: Than again....
 
I agree with spot four as well - the marble will nice. I assume we're going to try to grab Great Library and some other Marble wonders down the road.

As far as early flips go - I don't recall them this early, but if we got one - how does Tokyo's cultural rings affect Kyoto? I know not very well, but I think we should probably keep it, since I doubt we can take over a more desirable southern cultural tile.
 
Tokio flip we better disband it, as we can not affort maintence. I check cite with scout and there no any sea resources to justify it.

I disagree with deciding on next settler site befor we scouting north for posible sea resources. Please, build scout or escort settler with 2 warriors and check north. My scout die befor he got there. But hopeffully this barbarian warrior was dealt with.

I will even disagree on propouse cite more strongly based on future flipper dot map. It pronhibit diagonal city. Befor we scout more I would rather not to close any options.

I WOULD NOT cottage over allready farmed land, we need food if we want to have libraries in any resonable timeframe. Food = shields.

I strongly suggest not to cottage any currently irrigatable land. We have space to cottage ties we can not irrigate.
 
lurker's comment:
Mutineer said:
I will even disagree on proposed cite more strongly based on future flipper dot map. It prohibit diagonal city. Befor we scout more I would rather not to close any options.
Click to expand...

bingo. you can only ever settle one city to your north. already, gangzhou and beijing leave you only 3 legal tiles to the west on your peninsula for flipper cities if you want one. if you settle the marked spot, it takes away one of those 3 options. 2 of the 3 tiles will be taken by monty's holy-city-capital at its next expansion if you don't fight back hard first. not that you have many weapons to fight back with, i know. none would be deluxe cities but when choices are that limited, "choose wisely" as they say at that other place ;).
 
If Time victory is turned off, this game could go to the third millennium, in my opinion. This scenario is very similar to the first map rolled by Lee in LK131. We are on a coast and it will be impossible to get a good foothold on the entire Eastern part of the continent. I don't mean to be pessimistic, and I know this game is supposed to be challenging, but at this point in time, I think the game is unwinnable.

The settings were set to make it challenging, but when I look back, I believe it made the game impossible. Perhaps we should try again on a new map in hopefully a more central location?
 
Actially it is winnable with clarifyed rules.
WE permitted to have vassal and can enter vassal cultural space.
That mean we can gift units to vassal. Taht make game winnable, theoretically. We do not have controll on declaring war. So we can not make supper strong vassal, becouse no one will declare on as. We can not be strong military on a first place, so some smallest civ do declare on as.
 
If it is winnable with vassals, then lets keep going. I thought that the vassal system was so broken that nothing could really work well, but I guess we'll see.
 
Well they is one more ligal way to win.

We do permitted to escort settlers.
Rules never sad we can not escort it try oppositons land and pillage or hunt workers/settlers along the way. Nether rules sad that escort can not clean some space for settler to settle! :)
 
Hmm...I'm not sure about those newest ideas Mutineer, they seem very outside the spirit of the game. On the other hand, the (broken) Vassal system may indeed provide us with the ability to win. Does anyone here consider themselves a Vassals expert? Because I sure don't know enough to manipulate a system I turn off 99% of the time.
 
About vassals, You might want to check this:
Vassals are not broken, they have some bugs, but if you learn how to use them instead of ignoring you might have some fun.

This is first game. It discuss mostly how to get vassal.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=206341

Second game is an example how one can use vassal.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=213061

About rules, I do not make them, I use them.

If one does not want to have rules not used as intended one have to formulate good set of rules. If one look on all my variant one can see that rules I specify is impossible to subverted to unintended porpoise. There no such thin as spirit, only set of rule. Otherwise you limit people imagination, which preventing games form been fun!
 
I am not at all sure what is "broken" about the Vassal system in the 2.08 version. It is just another way to win the game.

When I first played with it on I thought it unpredictable, but after a few games I found that was not the case. It can still discommode the human player (a good thing), and it often throws a monkey wrench into your plans (even better), but it is not a random element, it can be manipulated to advantage and it does add something to the game.

Yet I will not lay claim to "expert" knowledge, just familiarity.

There are at least two hurdles to surmount in this particular game however. Sometimes a weaker nation will offer to become your vassal without the need for warfare, but only if they perceive you as a "Protector". And that requires a degree of military strength relative to the other nations that may be difficult to attain in a culturally based game. And as soon as a voluntary vassal calculates that you no longer deserve your position as Protector they will terminate the agreement once it has run its course, though they may offer it again should the position change.

The other way to acquire a vassal is through warfare and as part of a peace agreement. That will also be difficult to achieve, as the variant rules make "punishing warfare" nigh on impossible.

It will be a challenge to make it work for us in this game, but that's what it's all about, no?
 
Kodii said:
I will try to play tonight, but before then, we should decide what to do with the settler.
Click to expand...

I think we CAN NOT decide befor we scout for posible sea resource on north?

It could be done with settler itself, escorted by 2 units, so if any barbarian there our settle do not die.
 
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