Tarot: Land of Arcana (WIP)

Look at EFZI - Vuldacon found a way around the parts restriction, but I don't remember details.

Blue Monkey said:

Look at EFZI - Vuldacon found a way around the parts restriction, but I don't remember details.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I've been playing it so I have it already. I'll look at the spaceship folder.

Erebras, thanks for your suggestions earlier. After some research, I found out that Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water are 4 elements that are connected to the Tarot suits.

Earth = Pentacles
Wind = Swords
Fire = Wands
Water = Cups

So I'm thinking about using Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water as 4 spaceship parts.
I'll just call it an 'elemental' victory or something like that.

The problem is I'm not sure how to only use 4 out of the 10 spaceship parts.
So I'm going to spend time on that now...

Okay, admission of guilt: I knew all along that the four classic elements are Air, Earth, Fire and Water. Earth, Wind and Fire was popular in the disco era, as were the Village People, so you got that reference, but the other musical group I'd mentioned is from the early 1970s (late '60s?) -- before your time, presumably. Obscure references is what fuels my sense of humor, sometimes.

But the real reason I'm posting is because you really should Wikipedia-search for "end times" and "eschatological ..." and things like that, particularly since you've already mentioned the non-Christian features, like Buddhist temples. The Wikipedia articles I perused go over end-times beliefs of the Abrahamic faiths, and also Buddhism, Hinduism, Bahai, Zorastrianism, and Scandinavian doomsday tales.

Yes, you said doomsday is out....but you might change your mind.

Also, originally Tarot cards had no artwork. The decks I've had have an insert in the box/package that tells about the history of the Tarot. This is why I felt the cards have less to do with Revelation and fortune-telling and more about someone's personal State of the Union address telling them what's going on. (But, yeah, the "default" Tarot has biblical imagery.) By abandoning the doomsday aspect, you seem to have embraced this idea or view of the Tarot, which harkens back to my earlier post about abundance and transformation (as specific card meanings).

Would it be helpful for me to post the general meanings of each card (minor and major arcanas) or would that be since you've already got that outlined?

EDIT: I forgot to mention one other important point. Even The Devil, Death, or The Tower cards are not necessarily evil Tarot-wise, despite the artwork. The Fool looks pretty mundane, but he can represent catastrophes of his own. You appear to be taking the cards at "face value" (pun intended) when in fact what is going on in the pictures, such as the resurrection of the dead (The Trumpet?) or Adam and Eve (or their representatives chained to the throne in The Devil) are allegories and archetypes that the artist of the deck chose to use to represent the concept the card actually represents. Go with it and have fun, Gray Wolf, and my apologies if I've inadvertently gotten off on a tangent and started muddying the waters.

the real reason I'm posting is because you really should Wikipedia-search for "end times" and "eschatological ..." and things like that, particularly since you've already mentioned the non-Christian features, like Buddhist temples. The Wikipedia articles I perused go over end-times beliefs of the Abrahamic faiths, and also Buddhism, Hinduism, Bahai, Zorastrianism, and Scandinavian doomsday tales.

Yes, you said doomsday is out....but you might change your mind.

Click to expand...

I was already delving into the non-Christian end times info. The problem is that each religious branch has their own set of beliefs. I wouldn't want this to become too Buddhist heavy or Scandinavian heavy.

Also, originally Tarot cards had no artwork. The decks I've had have an insert in the box/package that tells about the history of the Tarot. This is why I felt the cards have less to do with Revelation and fortune-telling and more about someone's personal State of the Union address telling them what's going on.

Click to expand...

Yea, it took me a while to realize that the Revelation part was only a miniscule part of the Tarot cards.

Would it be helpful for me to post the general meanings of each card (minor and major arcanas) or would that be since you've already got that outlined?

Click to expand...

No need to do that. All of the cards are described well on Wikipedia. I just need to study them better...

EDIT: I forgot to mention one other important point. Even The Devil, Death, or The Tower cards are not necessarily evil Tarot-wise, despite the artwork. The Fool looks pretty mundane, but he can represent catastrophes of his own. You appear to be taking the cards at "face value" (pun intended) when in fact what is going on in the pictures, such as the resurrection of the dead (The Trumpet?) or Adam and Eve (or their representatives chained to the throne in The Devil) are allegories and archetypes that the artist of the deck chose to use to represent the concept the card actually represents. Go with it and have fun, Gray Wolf, and my apologies if I've inadvertently gotten off on a tangent and started muddying the waters.

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I agree. I was definitely looking at these cards at face value and not reading about them and what they really mean. For example, I thought Death was always a bad card but it turns out that whenever Death occurs, it also implies that a re-birth occurs. Maybe it's the death of one Age and the beginning of a new age...

No apologies necessary. I really enjoy reading your comments.

I made huge progress on the spaceship screen today though. I need 10 things to make the screen work and look good.

Gray Wolf said:

Erebras, thanks for your suggestions earlier. After some research, I found out that Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water are 4 elements that are connected to the Tarot suits.

Earth = Pentacles
Wind = Swords
Fire = Wands
Water = Cups

Click to expand...

This is a very simple example of what are called tables of correspondences. This can become a very complex and esoteric subject in and of itself. Developing a simple one can help with designing your scenario. Then adding columns/rows for civ colors, units, resources, tech lines, improvements, wonders, etc. should make more sense. Not to mention ideas about map design & terrain.

Gray Wolf said:

So I'm thinking about using Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water as 4 spaceship parts.
I'll just call it an 'elemental' victory or something like that.

The problem is I'm not sure how to only use 4 out of the 10 spaceship parts.
So I'm going to spend time on that now...

Click to expand...

Tarot + 10 parts = Celtic Cross Spread. In addition to the parts this should provide some ideas about the space race screen.

Of course, once you begin thinking in terms of correspondences, all sorts of things become possible...


I'm not recommending those particular links as authoritative. Just as suggestive of possible ideas for present purposes.

Blue Monkey,

Thanks, I love the table of correspondences. That's going to help me tremendously in creating my tech screens. I already see 1 tech that I want to use: Sympathetic Magic

Can I use that image of Correspondences? That's awesome.

I'm going to spend time thinking about the space screen again.
I'm on the verge of coming up with something good now.

The image I posted is the wip bg of an era splash in a steampunk scenario under development. I don't mind if you use it (larger version available). Just understand that the original image of the orrery is not mine - I've only done some gimp manipulation.

Blue Monkey said:

The image I posted is the wip bg of an era splash in a steampunk scenario under development. I don't mind if you use it (larger version available). Just understand that the original image of the orrery is not mine - I've only done some gimp manipulation.

Click to expand...

Thanks, turns out I won't need that anyway.

So far, this is what I am thinking for 10 space parts, based on 10 correspondences.

Earth
Wind
Fire
Water

Sword of David
Shekel of Gold
Rod of Aaron
Cup of Joseph

Matter
Spirit

This would be helpful within a magic circle.

I like the idea of making 2 sets of 4 things + 2 more things to make 10, rather than 10 things in a long chain.

Also, this is more occult-like and tarot-like than the Apocalypse stuff which in hindsight was way too Biblical.

** Subject to change of course.

This matches the spaceship screen because the spaceship screen has 3 sections

Modules = 4 parts (1-4)
Structural = 4 parts (7-10)
Components = 2 parts (5-6)

The only problem is Structural contains the 10th part which I would have liked to be Spirit
but the set of 2 (Matter and Spirit) are in the Component section which is part 5 and part 6.

There's always something to have to figure out... or let go.

I can make Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water the Structural part so that Water will become the 10th part
and trigger the launch button. And water seems Spiritual in nature so I can live with it being the last part
that helps you win the game.

Modules will be renamed to 'Elements'
Structural will be renamed to 'Magic Items'
Components will be renamed to 'Realms'

Spaceship Victory will be renamed to 'Magnus Opus Victory'

Launch will be renamed to 'Cast Spell'

The Spaceship screen background will have a large image of a Solomon Magic Circle...

Instead of:

Sword of David
Shekel of Gold
Rod of Aaron
Cup of Joseph

I will get less Biblical (again) and more creative:
Sword of Vengeance
Shield of Protection
Wand of Radiance
Chalice of Sorrow

I sort of like these. And I am finally confident enough now to make the spaceship screen images. A week off schedule but at least the mod is better...

Reserved for notes related to spaceship files:

Part 1 = thruster_top.pcx = Sword of Vengeance
Part 2 = engine.pcx = Shield of Protection
Part 3 = dockingbay.pcx = Wand of Radiance
Part 4 = cockpit.pcx = Chalice of Sorrow
Part 5 = cap_bottom.pcx = The Skull
Part 6 = lifesupport.pcx = The Crown
Part 7 = stasis.pcx = The Chamber
Part 8 = storage.pcx = The Altar
Part 9 = partylounge.pcx = The Mirror
Part 10 = casing_back_bottom.pcx = The Circle

The Magnum Opus screen is finally finished. I may make it better later but here it is right now:



When you hover over the Magician's card, the 4 magic items sitting on the table illuminate when you touch them.

Sword of Vengeance = Swords
Chalice of Sorrow = Cups
Wand of Radiance = Wands
Shield of Protection = Pentacles

And the Ceremony & Ritual parts also illuminate:
The Chamber
The Alter
The Mirror
The Circle

Also, I love Edgar Allan Poe so I put a Raven in the top right hand corner.

Anyway, I like the screen so this is done now.

Resources:

Strategic:
Aluminum
Amber (Wands)
Camels
Coal
Horses
Iron
Saltpeter
Stones
Turquoise (Pentacles)
Well of Fortitude

Luxuries:
Dyes
Furs
Gems
Incense
Ivory
Silks
Spices
Wines

Bonus Wildlife:
Bears
Bears, Polar
Birds, Exotic
Birds, Tropical
Bison
Butterflies
Cattle
Chicken
Deer
Ducks
Fish
Fox, Arctic
Fox, Red
Game
LLama
Pheasant
Seals
Sea Monster (Cups)
Sheep
Turtles
Whales

Bonus Crops:
Apples
Bananas
Cherries
Grapes
Mushrooms
Pineapple
Rice
Strawberries
Sugar
Tobacco
Tomatoes
Wheat

Bonus Trees and Flowers:
Bamboo
Bellflowers
Dandelions
Fireweed
Lilies, White
Oasis
Palm Trees
Poppies, Blue
Poppies, Red
Seaweed
Sunflowers
Wildflowers

Bonus Precious Metals:
Copper
Gold
Pearls
Silver

Erebras said:

Okay, admission of guilt: I knew all along that the four classic elements are Air, Earth, Fire and Water. Earth, Wind and Fire was popular in the disco era, as were the Village People, so you got that reference, but the other musical group I'd mentioned is from the early 1970s (late '60s?) -- before your time, presumably. Obscure references is what fuels my sense of humor, sometimes.

Click to expand...

Ha! Blood, Sweat, and Tears. I didn't catch that one. And I remember hearing
'Spinning Wheel' on the radio when I was a kid:

What goes up
must come down
spinning wheel
got to go around
talkin' 'bout your troubles
it's a cryin' sin
Ride a painted pony
let the spinning wheel spin

Click to expand...

So, Gray Wolf, it looks like you got rid of the Biblical doomsday aspect for your mod, and you have the spaceship victory now a magnum opus spell of some sort to cast. So, I'm thinking the point of the mod is to develop in some sort of Pilgrim's Progress fashion (or karmic wheel, if you prefer) in order to achieve a transcendental state of being? That the acquisition of technologies and spreading settlements all over the map are allegorical references to achieving greater and greater insight and enlightenment and magical power until finally one can dispose of one's obstacles/demons either through subduing them to your will (diplomatic), eradication (conquest), diminution (domination), or overpowering them through personal force of will rendering them insignificant (space ship), is that it?

May I point out that somewhere you can add the aspect of Mass Regicide as some sort of tie-in, though I don't know which Arcana these "kings" would represent. In MagePunk I considered Regicide too easy an out for a short game, so I intended to create units representing royal guards or royal heirs-to-the-throne and making them King units. Since there are no multiple cards in Tarot, you'd have to do something slightly different -- if you chose to go this way at all, of course.

Erebras said:

So, Gray Wolf, it looks like you got rid of the Biblical doomsday aspect for your mod, and you have the spaceship victory now a magnum opus spell of some sort to cast. So, I'm thinking the point of the mod is to develop in some sort of Pilgrim's Progress fashion (or karmic wheel, if you prefer) in order to achieve a transcendental state of being? That the acquisition of technologies and spreading settlements all over the map are allegorical references to achieving greater and greater insight and enlightenment and magical power until finally one can dispose of one's obstacles/demons either through subduing them to your will (diplomatic), eradication (conquest), diminution (domination), or overpowering them through personal force of will rendering them insignificant (space ship), is that it?

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Yes, exactly. This is sort of what I wanted all along. I just had trouble getting there. And you explained it almost perfectly...

diplomatic = peace talks = The World wonder = United Nations = allows peace talks.
conquest = eradication
domination = diminution = some kind of Victory Point system.
space ship = Magnum Opus = Magic = Force Change = Immortality?

I'm not eliminating the Doomsday aspect totally. It fits into conquest. I think I'll make the Devil Wonder produce a unit called the White Horse which will upgrade to the Red Horse, Black Horse, and Pale Horse. And only 1 civilization can get it. And they will be pretty powerful units. But you only get 1 every 100 turns or something. That way you won't see multiple white horses, red horses, black horses, or pale horses....

May I point out that somewhere you can add the aspect of Mass Regicide as some sort of tie-in, though I don't know which Arcana these "kings" would represent.

Click to expand...

I do like the idea of a Mass Regicide approach. I need to use Ace through King for each suit, and the King unit would be perfect for that. Maybe some of the other suit cards can be 'royal guard' units like in MagePunk. Yea, that'd be sort of cool I think. Maybe you can help me sort out details on that too.

I remember thinking about Capture the Princess also. I could use the Queen as a Princess unit...

I've always felt like the Page unit should be some kind of Diplomat/Spy. Because I read details about the Page card and he influences foreign affairs (I think).

I'll start figuring this out once I finish the spaceship screen...

I just realized that even though Spirit is spaceship part 6 in the .biq file, that I can make players acquire each of the spaceship parts in whatever order I want and I can make 'Spirit' the last one that people get. And when they get it they can 'cast a spell' (i.e. launch the spaceship).

Does anyone know whether the spaceship video can be changed to our own video? Otherwise, when people win by casting a spell, they'll see a spaceship video which doesn't fit the scenario at all...

Gray Wolf said:

Does anyone know whether the spaceship video can be changed to our own video? Otherwise, when people win by casting a spell, they'll see a spaceship video which doesn't fit the scenario at all...

Click to expand...

Rob (RX8FT) is the one to consult on that. He did videos for AD. So he could tell you about format, settings, length, etc.

On another note ... The first post of the linked thread and the bullet points in the second are a summary of what we learned about layout in designing the steampunk space race screen. The rest of the thread is specific to the graphics for that scenario(s).