Misc. random BNW observations so far:

1) AI's are very foxy about utilizing your existing road systems. When I built a long runner of cities down the middle of a continent, a civ that had it's capital on one side of me and a new city on the other side, just patched into my road and jogged down it a ways, and then shot a new road off of it to his 'stranded' city.

Also, I observed Korea building a road to patch into mine, in order to be more quickly able to send attacking troops through my lands to go after Hiawatha over on the far side of me. AI is pretty smart with roads now. Of course, I was being peaceful and kept open borders with most everyone throughout the game.

I suppose it's possible that they were doing these kinds of things before BNW, but I NEVER left open borders in any game before BNW, so I wouldn't have noticed if they did. Wasn't any good reason to then (and plenty of good reasons not to). Now, with the big bonus to tourism from open borders, it's usually a no-brainer.

2) AI is a real beach about letting you get open borders treaties with them, to be able to send your scouts through their lands when they completely bar your path of exploration. Before, you could toss them a few gold and they'd usually gladly let you past. But now, since you can't give them loose gold unless you have a DoF with them (another thing most of them are a real beach about giving out), you can't get past them. This is a real problem. No dang way i'm giving them gpt (thieves!) for stupid open border agreement. They really need to make a better way of getting open borders with the AI.

Open borders are easy if you are above neutral with them. They will trade them 1 for 1 in that case. If they are neutral they will require something. Guarded or below they may not give them at all or the cost would be ridiculous.

I actually saw something new this time in my game. I asked Gandhi who was neutral for open borders and he asked for my vote in the world congress in exchange. It was a vote I wanted anyway so I happily agreed.

Yzman said:

Open borders are easy if you are above neutral with them. They will trade them 1 for 1 in that case. If they are neutral they will require something.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but the problem is, they are all pretty much 'neutral' until a lot farther into the game. Getting friendly with them isn't all that easy if you don't have a lot of gold or free stuff to throw at them for giveaways. Which I never do in BNW early on. So the only thing you have to buy borders from them with, is gold per turn. At epic speed, 1 gpt = 45g. Unfortunately, open borders base rate for cheapskate neutrals is 50g. So, you have to waste 2gpt, a whole 90g, to buy it for 50g. Losing game, that. Especially when every gpt is extremely critical.

So you either give them twice what it's worth, or you just lose out on scouting half the continent. That's just wrong. They need to allow players to offer up to 50g to AI's for this purpose, without having to be friendly first. I understand why they made that change, to prevent player's abusing the AI out of all their loose gold in lux and resource trades... but a 50g limit isn't going to abuse anyone, and is necessary to make buying open borders less of an unnecessary PITA.

I have had different experiences. I seem to always get to friendly with a lot of civs very quickly. There is occasionally one civ that will stay neutral no matter what I do though.

it's usually 2GPT for open borders, that's the equivalent of 60 gold, it's not that expensive.

Also never give them open borders. Just pay the 2GPT and take their open borders and don't give yours in return.

sonicandfffan said:

it's usually 2GPT for open borders, that's the equivalent of 60 gold, it's not that expensive.

Also never give them open borders. Just pay the 2GPT and take their open borders and don't give yours in return.

Click to expand...

I disagree. I would rather have the money and its a lot cheaper to just give them the open borders in exchange. I rarely have any issue with doing this. There are a few times that I may not want to give them open borders, to stop a certain unit or to prevent tourism, but these times are the exception and not the rule.

There is a window of "non-opportunity" during which I NEVER give them OB: when the diggers are about to roam the world. First thing the AI does is send their diggers to YOUR sites (granted, I try to do the same )...

After digging is over, OB are back (if useful).

Smokeybear said:

Yeah, but the problem is, they are all pretty much 'neutral' until a lot farther into the game. Getting friendly with them isn't all that easy if you don't have a lot of gold or free stuff to throw at them for giveaways. Which I never do in BNW early on. So the only thing you have to buy borders from them with, is gold per turn. At epic speed, 1 gpt = 45g. Unfortunately, open borders base rate for cheapskate neutrals is 50g. So, you have to waste 2gpt, a whole 90g, to buy it for 50g. Losing game, that. Especially when every gpt is extremely critical.

So you either give them twice what it's worth, or you just lose out on scouting half the continent. That's just wrong. They need to allow players to offer up to 50g to AI's for this purpose, without having to be friendly first. I understand why they made that change, to prevent player's abusing the AI out of all their loose gold in lux and resource trades... but a 50g limit isn't going to abuse anyone, and is necessary to make buying open borders less of an unnecessary PITA.

Click to expand...

2gpt pays for itself by meeting 1-2 city states, not to mention fulfilling CS quest (find natural wonder, meet AI, etc)

On King, I find that the AI likes to play me at my own game (growing tall and building lots of Wonders) rather than how it used to play (growing wide and building lots of units).

2 gpt is nothing by mid-game. As a side benefit, you gain +25% tourism for their open border.

There is absolutely no reason to open your borders to AI, except for allowing them easier access to your common enemy. Other than that there are only disadvantages:

- they interfere with your movement, especially of your civilian units;
- open borders stand for 25% influence bonus;
- you give them access to your archaeological sites;
- you help them spread their own religion even when they do not spread it in your borders, because they can move their missionaries freely without suffering dmg to their conversion power.

The whole list is worth 1gpt with most civs and 2gpt with a few neutral ones. Also, if an AI is low on gold, you can make open borders a part of luxury/strategic resource trade.

You can just park a unit on a dig site within your borders that you haven't got round to exploiting yet if you have open borders with the AI can't you?

uncle bulgaria said:

You can just park a unit on a dig site within your borders that you haven't got round to exploiting yet if you have open borders with the AI can't you?

Click to expand...

True but if you don't have Archaeology you can't see where they are.

^ exactly. Moreover, you are wasting precious units, though this is a minor issue.
For me, the worst thing is having your whole country disorganized by a throng of enemy units constantly getting in your way, especially causing go-to units stray away from roads.