Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Merkel instructs Muslims to adopt 'fundamental German values'
Yet another Islamophobe holding a major political office...
German multicultural society "has failed" -- Chancellor Merkel
- Thread starter Babbler
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amadeus
Serenity now
And what is wrong with wanting them to accept German values if they are living in Germany? When you open your home to guests, do you let them drag their muddy shoes on the carpeting and let them throw cigarette butts on the floor? There is a code of conduct which people are expected to adhere to when you have the privilege of being a guest of such a place -- some people are not so fortunate as to be able to find a better life in Germany, America, Britain, Australia, Canada, etc.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
National essentialism is complete codswallop?
Who decides what German values are? Who gets to decide who is and isn't "accepting" German values?
Xanikk999
History junkie
I don't know but her belief that "If you do not speak german you are not welcome here" really isn't all that unreasonable.
I wouldn't want any people who cant even function in my society leeching off the government welfare.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
I will say, this is a fair point. It should simply be remembered that there's a difference between learning the appropriate language of your country and adopting it exclusively (as many an indignant Welshman will tell you).
And what does that have to do with being foreign?
Xanikk999
History junkie
And what does that have to do with being foreign?
If they cant speak the national language how are they going to get a job. Maybe thats possible there but if you don't speak English in the U.S (even though its not the national language), good luck functioning in society at all without having to rely on family member and friends, much less being able to get a job.
amadeus
Serenity now
That's something I can't quantify, but it's also something you can't completely abstract. While there are differences within cultures, there are still cultures.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
It was an ironic remark. There's more than a few anti-social layabouts in Britain how can trace their native ancestry back to the Stone Age.
And on what authority are cultural values imposed upon the individual by society at large?
Is this German?
Are these guys German?
These?
Or these?
Cultural orthodoxy is dangerous. Let's not swing it around too carelessly.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
It is not "accept". It is "conform". Why should non-citizens be forced to "conform" to German "tradition"? Is this Saudi Arabia or a modern European country which tolerates other cultures?
And did you forget about this part?
Do you really think that is true in Germany? That Sharia law exists, there is no equality amongst Muslim men and women, and that honor killings frequently occur?
Xanikk999
History junkie
Traitor who and what the heck are those guys in black suits doing? That's just a creepy picture.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
They are Orthodox Jews, or some such, presumably celebrating the fact that the Germans are no longer trying to kill them. FOR NOW.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
There really should be some German law to prohibit Jews from dancing in the streets. That's just not being respectful of traditional culture. Didn't we learn anything from WWII?
Turkish president Abdullah Gül wishes for Turks in Germany to become part of German society. They should lern German "fluently and without accent", he said to the Süddeutschen Zeitung. Football player Mesut Özil, who has Turkish parents and plays in the German national team, was called "a very good example for integration" by Gül.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/...-dass-oezil-fuer-deutschland-spielt-1.1012665
That integration has failed is, following surveys and research, fact rather than propaganda. It seems to me that policy makers should work with facts, not fiction.
(On US multiculturalism: the US were built on Indian genocide. The cultures existing there today live side by side - in entirely different worlds. Calling this "multiculturalism" is a gotspe.)
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/...-dass-oezil-fuer-deutschland-spielt-1.1012665
That integration has failed is, following surveys and research, fact rather than propaganda. It seems to me that policy makers should work with facts, not fiction.
(On US multiculturalism: the US were built on Indian genocide. The cultures existing there today live side by side - in entirely different worlds. Calling this "multiculturalism" is a gotspe.)
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
US multiculturalism is derived mostly from New York City and similar cities, not the arid wastelands of Arizona and New Mexico.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City
Xanikk999
History junkie
I'm sorry but a few isolated instances of massacres hardly constitutes as genocide. While murdering and pillaging is something i dont support, genocide is not the same thing.
Genocide is the clear intent of the destruction of a race, and we did not try to kill them all off. What our country did was disgraceful but in no way different then some European colonialist practices of the time.
It was more akin to forced relocation.
As for your quote on multiculturalism what would you consider multiculturalism i am unclear of your definition.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
The proper term would be "ethnic cleansing". While genocide is a form of ethnic cleansing, it is not an appropriate term for non-genocidal forms. (That said, there were certainly Native tribes towards which American (and European) policy can be described as little other than genocidal; the term is appropriate in certain individual cases, just not on a nation-wide level.)
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
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Amadeus has a point: If she is merely demanding that they obey the laws and the constitution of the country, it's an entirely reasonable demand, an expected one.
Of course, there's a political reason that she'd making that public statement: she's implying that they are not respecting the laws and constitution of Germany.
I won't pretend to know whether or not she has good motives for that. I do know that they've had Turks for many years there and it's strange that they're just "discovering" this when they're dealing with an economic crisis...
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
It is just a coincidence, much like the coincidence that Islam is suddenly an evil religion ever since 9/11, and that the "immigration problem" in Arizona has gotten much worse in the two short years that Obama has been in office.
That the Chancellor of Germany actually thinks that Sharia law has suddenly come to Germany and that honor killings are now a serious problem in her own country is also "entirely reasonable".
That the Chancellor of Germany actually thinks that Sharia law has suddenly come to Germany and that honor killings are now a serious problem in her own country is also "entirely reasonable".
Shaihulud
Deity
Cultural relativism considered very well and good at this time, but I think the purpose of a "nation" is to serve its people. When the people decides that a certain subset of its population (the migrants) needs to integrate more fully, either culturally, economically, than it is the responsibility of the government (that serves the nation) to ensure that it is well done. A migrant should be able to speak the language of whichever place they will be going to, that is only fair I think, they should be productive and not a drain on resorces, if they fail on this points, they should be sent back. Isn't there a probation for newly arrived immigrants?
