Best leader your country never had

The less said about the 'Reagan Revolution' in foreign policy and his savaging of the civil service the better if you are looking for good things about him.

To add some substance to this post, if we are looking at post-WWII presidents, I would actually put Clinton in the bottom half. Sure, the economy was doing great under him but it would have performed well even if we had a particularly unambitious oyster as president. His domestic policies were simply adequate and his foreign policy was particularly uninspired and haphazard when operating on a level beyond empty rhetoric when push came to shove. His failure to get Arafat to negotiate at Camp David set the Israeli-Palestinian kerfuffle back by a decade and squandered a lot a goodwill between the two sides. His approach to Africa's World War was useless, and the incompetence and sheer ill-will shown to UNAMIR after the scale of the genocide was established was staggering. The most powerful country in history couldn't be bothered to mobilize some rapid response units to UNAMIR requests for assistance to protect refugees? Color me unconvinced.
 
The less said about the 'Reagan Revolution' in foreign policy and his savaging of the civil service the better if you are looking for good things about him.
When Reagan made an official visit to Canada and addressed Parliament, he was booed both outside and inside the House. Was it unparliamentary of Svend Robinson to basically call Reagan a liar? Of course. Was Robinson correct in calling him a liar? Yes.

Contrast that to Obama's non-state visit. Crowds lined the streets, people waved and cheered, and when Obama got out of the car, Harper told him, "They came to see you, not me," so Obama waved at the crowd.

And the Shamrock Summit (Mulroney/Reagan, 1985) remains one of the most disgusting pieces of news footage involving Canada-US relations in living memory.
 
I'm drawing a bit of a blank in relation to politicians during my lifetime. Perhaps because there's hardly any room for Australian politicians to express anything other than the party line. Assuming we're talking about people who legitimately had a chance of being leader, Herb Evatt and Lionel Murphy spring to mind.

Evatt was a Labor member of the NSW Parliament for a few years before being appointed a Justice of the High Court in 1930, where he sat for almost a decade. He's regarded as being a jurist of the highest quality, and one of the best Australian equity judges, but he quit once the war started, ran for the Australian Parliament and was the Foreign Minister and Attorney-General through the war and until 1949 (when Labor lost power). During this time he was one of the founders of the UN and the President of the General Assembly for a couple of years. Apparently he helped draft the UN Declaration of Human Rights. When the Labor leader (and former PM) Chifley died in 1951, Evatt became Leader of the Opposition. Unfortunately, the Labor party disintegrated under his leadership, with the Democratic Labor Party splitting off because they thought the party had become too communist-friendly. Labor wouldn't regain power until 1972. After losing his third straight election in 1958, he was appointed by the NSW Labor government as Chief Justice of NSW. During his two years in that position, it was largely thought that he'd lost a lot of his mental faculties, so it was not the most dignified end to his career. He died in 1965.

Lionel Murphy was also a federal Labor politician, who was appointed Attorney-General when Labor finally did win power again in 1972 under Gough Whitlam. In 1975 Whitlam appointed him as a Justice of the High Court, where he sat until his premature death in 1986. The last year of his life was marred by scandal, though in the end he was cleared (and a Parliamentary Commission to investigate if there were any grounds for his removal never went ahead). He was possibly the most active proponent of human rights in the High Court's history, and although he was often dissenting, helped in the establishment of an increased rights focus which has been a feature of the Court ever since.

Michael Kirby would be another suggestion; he's never been a politician, but would probably be one of the top candidates for Governor-General in future.
latham would have been grouse
 
and the shamrock summit (mulroney/reagan, 1985) remains one of the most disgusting pieces of news footage involving canada-us relations in living memory.

"you pissed on my rug!!"
 
When Reagan made an official visit to Canada and addressed Parliament, he was booed both outside and inside the House.

Contrast that to Obama's non-state visit. Crowds lined the streets, people waved and cheered, and when Obama got out of the car, Harper told him, "They came to see you, not me," so Obama waved at the crowd.
This really isn't even worth typing out.

Except for those 3 times Reagan committed treason....
Ok, I'll bite. Elaborate.
This must be worth typing out. I hope it isn't simple hyperbole.


I would actually put Clinton in the bottom half. Sure, the economy was doing great under him but it would have performed well even if we had a particularly unambitious oyster as president.
That made me laugh out loud.
 
How was that treason?
Treason generally means working to overthrow the government...

Was it unethical/illegal, sure, but not treason.
 
The last decent president we had was Calvin Coolidge, and he certainly was not perfect either.
 
How was that treason?
Treason generally means working to overthrow the government...

Was it unethical/illegal, sure, but not treason.

Treason is betrayal of nation's interest, doesn't matter if it is moral/legal or must be attempts to overthrow the government.

Think Snowden. He committed treason without any attempt of overthrow.
 
"you pissed on my rug!!"
Is there a point to this comment? (unless Mulroney really did that and CBC/CTV forgot to report it)

This really isn't even worth typing out.
Then you're lucky nobody asked you to type it out. Since I've been dealing with fibromyalgia, which makes typing anything a frustrating and painful activity, you may be sure I thought it was worth typing out.

I remember watching that on TV, back in 1985. Yes, it was disgusting. However, since you're of a different political mindset, you would probably find it inoffensively charming. :rolleyes:
 
I remember watching that on TV, back in 1985. Yes, it was disgusting. However, since you're of a different political mindset, you would probably find it inoffensively charming. :rolleyes:

Well, now I would guess an American traditional right-wing isolationist point of view, that the support or objection from foreign countries and foreign people are not important.
 
Well, now I would guess an American traditional right-wing isolationist point of view, that the support or objection from foreign countries and foreign people are not important.
I could be rude enough to agree with you that support or objection from foreign countries and foreign people are indeed unimportant, given that it was Canada's Prime Minister and his wife behaving like fools on stage with the U.S. President and his wife, who were only too happy to encourage it.

You have missed the point that while I greatly detested Ronald Reagan, I hated Brian Mulroney - for messing up our country both domestically and with other countries, for embarrassing our country with international appearances such as at the Shamrock Summit, and to this very day when it's evident to pretty much everyone that he belongs in prison and it's only his "Right Honourable" title that's kept him safe.
 
Barry Goldwater.

Insert ohyou.jpg here.

You mean Mr. Aliens and Sedition Act???

Odd you jumped to that given Smellincoffee intentionally mentioned a non-Hamiltonian administration and that act was pushed through by the congressional Federalists.

Except for those 3 times Reagan committed treason....

Sssh! Remember, Reagan was the #1 best president and super popular even though polling shows he wasn't.



I've seen a few Bobby Kennedy mentions but I'm disappointed the American lefties here haven't picked up on Henry Wallace. Had the potential to stop some of the bloodshed in Asia and start the civil rights movement a decade earlier, though he was smeared with McCarthy-esque charges of communism in his day.
 
Treason is betrayal of nation's interest, doesn't matter if it is moral/legal or must be attempts to overthrow the government.

Think Snowden. He committed treason without any attempt of overthrow.
Snowden didn't commit treason. That's a very liberal definition of the word used to demonize him/his actions, to scare the crap out of people thinking to do the same. Totally sensationalist.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/treason

Well, now I would guess an American traditional right-wing isolationist point of view, that the support or objection from foreign countries and foreign people are not important.
Not at all... just the support or objection from Canadia... they're our jealous little brother of a nation.
But, in all actuality, who does or doesn't cheer for our president is largely trivial, unless it's globally the same.
Remember, Reagan was certainly adored in places like, oh, Berlin.
You can see where my politics lay in the Political Compass quiz thread...

Odd you jumped to that given Smellincoffee intentionally mentioned a non-Hamiltonian administration and that act was pushed through by the congressional Federalists.
I like how you try to explain it away from Adams as if you have some agenda at stake. Signed by Adams, the federalist.

Sssh! Remember, Reagan was the #1 best president and super popular even though polling shows he wasn't.
3 acts of treason is a pretty powerful statement to make, and then fail to back up.
 
Reagan's Brain was literally rotting even during his presidency.
 
Is there a point to this comment? (unless Mulroney really did that and CBC/CTV forgot to report it)

You mentioned low points in US-Canadian relations of recent memory. You'll remember when Lyndon Johnson basically lifted Lester Pearson up by the neck after Pearson for some reason declared (perhaps sarcastically) that Johnson needed his approval before dealing with Cuba. Johnson yelled "you pissed on my rug!" while lifting him up by the neck.
 
You mentioned low points in US-Canadian relations of recent memory. You'll remember when Lyndon Johnson basically lifted Lester Pearson up by the neck after Pearson for some reason declared (perhaps sarcastically) that Johnson needed his approval before dealing with Cuba. Johnson yelled "you pissed on my rug!" while lifting him up by the neck.

Actually it was because Canada criticized US foreign policy in Vietnam. Let's just say that Johnson didn't take that too well. Ironically though, Canada ended up profiting from US involvement in Vietnam through the selling of resources to fuel the US war machine.
 
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