Beyond Sid

The world situation:



Nobody has met the Zulu. The Iroquois cultural borders touch the borders of the Zulu, but since they don't have astronomy, they haven't been able to meet them. There are 3 other locations where ships have seen a black border, but didn't get close enough to meet them.

Originally posted by vbraun
Yeah i think 34 leaders is just a tad more then normal
Just a question Bam... What is the most amount of GLs you've produced in a game?

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IIRC, he had 76 armies in one game! That game was just as insane. I'm lucky if I even get 3 that are NOT from the Military Academy. I even used a few tactics Bamspeedy wrote about here in one game (bunch of catapults, and archers, since I had no resources - only room for 2 cities on an island before the AI pushed me in). Took 4 tries (and many lost catapults later after the RNG turned on me... ) before I took the city. With luck, if you win, you'll get lots of GLs by constant bombarding to 1hp.

IIRC, he had 76 armies in one game! That game was just as insane.

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Thats at least 304 citys 76 armies

I'm lucky if I even get 3 that are NOT from the Military Academy.

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The most ive gotten with using the Military Acadamy is like 2.

I even used a few tactics Bamspeedy wrote about here in one game

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Were can i find this article

Man...Ur just beatin' the snot out of my favorite civ...Good job, I think...
(My fav. civ...)
I'm assuming that u plan to militarily dominate?

IIRC, he had 76 armies in one game! That game was just as insane.

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Leaders, not armies. I think 40 armies was the most I had at any one point (160 cities). I disbanded some armies to make new ones (either I couldn't transport them or they were obsolete anyways).

Well, these last 35 or so turns were pretty non-eventual, in that the Mongol's offensive army was already obliterated and since they went to communism, they don't seem to have produced ANYTHING. They built tons of ships and must have loaded the ships up with troops to try and sneak their troops past my 'Wall of Armies'. All their cities had the usual 3 riflemen defenders.

1788 (continued)-Abandon the cities I got from the Mongols.

IBT-Mongols demand I leave their territory.
I refuse and war is started up again.
Kill 1 longbowman, 1 rifleman.

1790-heal troops

IBT-bombardments from ships

1792-Kill 9 riflemen
lose 3 musketeers.

IBT-Mongols unload 2 riflemen, 1 longbow, 1 medievel infantry by Thebes. Luckily I use Egypt territory to transfer units from my land to Mongols, so there are several troops in the area.

1794-Get 4 musketeers in Thebes. More musketeers and cannons are in the immediate vicinity.
Kill 1 rifleman.

IBT-Kill 1 longbow, 1 medievel infantry
2 Mongol riflemen by Thebes moves towards Besancon

1796-kill 2 riflemen
lose 1 musketeer

Contact Zulu. They have military tradition, but lack Education.
Give Zulu Education for Military Tradition, WM, 108 gold.

1798-Kill 5 riflemen in Ereen and then a Frigate is shown as a defender! Attack the frigate and instead a longbowman is shown (I guess units inside a ship that is in a city doesn't show up as being the defender until the city is attacked). Kill 3 of these frigate/longbowmen.
Capture Ereen.

IBT-kill 2 longbows

1800-Capture Kazan, now have furs.

1802-zzz

1804-Kill 1 longbow, start bombarding Karakorum

1806-Capture Karakorum. (and Leo's!)
capture 5 cannons
killed 6 riflemen
lost 1 musketeer

1808-Kill 3 riflemen, 1 longbow

1810-Start bombarding Tabriz

1812-Capture Tabriz and 1 cannon
There was some frigates in there, but not sure how many (3?)
Killed 3 riflemen
lost 2 musketeers

IBT-kill 1 frigate

1814-Start bombarding Almarikh

IBT-lose 1 galleon (empty)

1816-Capture Almarikh
Capture 1 cannon
kill 3 riflemen

IBT-kill 1 frigate

1818-1820-zzzz (advancing towards Ta-Tu)

1822-Capture Ta-Tu, 2 slaves, 5 cannons
kill 3 riflemen, lose 2 musketeers
The rest of the Mongol cities on this continent are entirely tundra/forests/mountains/hills/water tiles.

1824-Bombard Darhan
Kill 2 riflemen with armies

IBT-Military Academy complete
Mongols unload 4 riflemen by Ta-Tu.

1826-Capture Darhan
There was at least 2 frigates in the city when captured.
Kill 5 riflemen
lose 1 musketeer

1828-zzzz

1830-Capture Mandalgovi
Kill 3 riflemen, lose 6 musketeers (1 elite 1-hp rifleman killed 5 of my veteran musketeers)
At least 1 frigate in Mandalgovi

1832-zzzz

1834-Capture Hovd
Kill 3 riflemen
lose 1 musketeer

IBT-lose 1 galleon (empty)

1836-kill 1 frigate
lose 1 galleon (empty)

1838-Capture Tsetserleg and 4 slaves
kill 3 riflemen

IBT-Mongols unload 1 rifleman, 2 longbow by Tsetserleg

1840-kill 1 rifleman, 2 longbow
Bombard frigate/galleon to 1 hp, and then kill them both.
Kill a 1 hp galleon that has been sitting outside Tabriz since forever.

IBT-Kill 1 frigate

1842-Capture Baruun-Urt and 7 slaves
kill 3 riflemen

1844-zzz

1846-Capture Choyr
kill 2 riflemen

1848-1852-Move troops towards Atlay

1854-Capture Atlay
kill 4 riflemen
lose 2 musketeers
generate 1 leader (move palace again).

1856-Net income jumped from +1180 to +1597 gpt.

IBT-Aztecs unload by Ta-Tu 1 spearman, 1 swordsman

1858-Cancel alliance with Celts vs. the Mongols.
Sign peace with Mongols for Ulaangom, Saynshand (their last 2 cities), WM, 95 gold
Abandon those 2 cities.
I could give Celts Physics + Metallurgy for Economics, but don't. I already have Smith's trading Co (which still works even if I don't have the tech), and I never build wealth, so the tech is useless for me.
Attempt to steal techs from Mongols (immediately-1646 gold)
1st-Theory of Gravity
2nd-caught
3rd-caught
Give Iroquois contact with the Zulu for 237 gold to raise some money for 1 more attempt (will want the Iroquois in an alliance vs. the Zulu anyways to help distract them).
4th attempt-Steam Power!
nearly 150 workers are set to lay down rails.
Mongols are up the techs nationalism, communism, and maybe espionage.

IBT-lose 1 musketeer (to Aztec swordsman)
Mongols demand I leave their territory. I refuse and declare war.

1860-Don't know what happened to Aztec swordsmen (disbanded?)
kill 1 Aztec spearman, losing 1 musketeer in the process.
Kill 7 riflemen in Har-Ayrag, capturing it and 4 slaves.
Lost 2 musketeers
Mongols have been eliminated.

Load up 44 galleons full of armies, cannons and musketeers and sail them towards the Zulu (due to land in 3 turns).

wow,this is a great story/game I'm lucky to win Emporer need the less that hard good job!

Originally posted by Bamspeedy

Load up 44 galleons full of armies, cannons and musketeers and sail them towards the Zulu (due to land in 3 turns).

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I was cracking up when I read that.


Shaka is lying down, sunbathing at the beach near his costal palace.
What's that rumble in the distance, he wonders.
"Naaaah, couldn't be..."
"Silly me, I must be dreaming again", he says to himself.
"Why is that I don't dream about Cleo any more?", he ponders.
Nods off...

Man Bamspeedy, your title above you avatar says it all. Will keep an eye on this game!

All tremble in fear before the Mad Cow, for he himself is beyond Sid!

Bamspeedy, I knew you were playing this game but I had not found the thread until you linked it.

Would it be safe to assume that you are simply the best player of civ3 there is? And if not, the best documented player then?

Best player? I think Aeson and Sir Pleb need to reclaim their titles.

Depends how you mean "best player." I would put Sirian up against anyone, especially using honorable tactics.

There's only one choice then. PBEM, players: Aeson, Bamspeedy, Sir Pleb, Sirian and 4 AI players, and the level is... beyond beyond sid

Anyway, I'll be watching this

Single Player and Multiplayer are TWO different animals. Even if that were possible, the game would last forever! Do you have any idea how much micromanagement they do?

<rant>

I wouldn't say I'm the best. I wouldn't say anyone is the best. Anyone who says they are 'the best' is being conceited and disrespectful for other players. Same goes for other people saying somebody else is 'the best', or that their group/club/site/competition has 'the best' players (which I have seen being claimed or hinted at, way too many times).

And exactly how you define 'the best' would need to be determined if you ever wanted to try and figure out who the 'best' is. Some are better at ringing up the score, some are better at telling stories, some are better at adjusting to different game circumstances, some are better at adjusting to new/different game rules, some are better with military and conquest, some are better with trading/diplomacy.

Just because Sirian doesn't play for score doesn't mean he couldn't beat Sir Pleb in score if he wanted to. Just because Sir Pleb doesn't play variants doesn't mean that Sir Pleb couldn't beat Sirian at his own game.

There are many 'great' players all over the place. The only way to determine who the 'best' is would be a head-head PBEM match, but even then there would be problems determining 'who was better' (any self-restrictions a player puts on himself, starting terrain, civs used, resources, etc.).

All I ask, is if you think a player is 'great', then just call him/her a 'Great Player'.

No civ player is a God, or Hero or any other such nonsense (like what I have seen in some people's signatures). No 'great player' is better than another 'great player' unless the weaker player admits it themselves or there is a head-head competition between the two.

I guess if you really want to say you think someone is the best, then you should always include at the end of any such statement these letters----> IMO (in my opinion)

<end rant>

Well Bamspeedy I agree with you to a point. When players get to the point of unbelieably good there's no real way to measure.

However, until proven wrong, I will still stand by the fact that you are winning a varient never won by anyone else, as its simply that insane. Right now it would seem you are the best documented player at beating an insane AI. And I really don't think you could entirely disagree to that!

Proof positive that , like drugs , civ has long term effects on the brain and reqular overdoses of either results in insanity .

OMG never thought this would be possible...

I must say great play Bamspeedy! I can but awe your courage to come up and take on this kind of a challenge. But yet I'm little disappointed in the AI behaviour. With that insane production bonus it should've overwhelmed you long ago...

I see you mentioning the max number of units allowed being 4000 and with 8 players that should make ~500 per civ. Most of the AIs having ~20 cities they would be paying 200+ in upkeep. Also your early screenshots show Egypt having no money. Did the AI outproduce its economy in the ancient age? Do they now have money? I imagine AI is now crippled producing units it can't have because of the max units limit, so you should have an easy march to the conquest victory ( if 'easy' can be used describing battles against hundreds of enemy units).

goodluck C.G.E

Did the AI outproduce its economy in the ancient age? Do they now have money? I imagine AI is now crippled producing units it can't have because of the max units limit, so you should have an easy march to the conquest victory

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Not sure what to say here. The civs who were fighting somebody (when I would get them involved in wars) didn't have money. This is most likely because of these 3 reasons.
1. War weariness. The civs insisting on staying in Republic and end up with tons of entertainers.
2. Spending all their money on rushing units. Kind of pointless if they can build a unit every turn, but the AI loves to rush things at full price.
3. Upgrading their hundreds of units.

The Americans and Arabs never met anyone but me and they never had any money. The Iroquois and Zulu never met anyone but me, yet they did have money. I've been making alot of money selling my maps to the Iroquois.

I didn't check all the cities, but the ones I did see had all the improvements in them, so I don't think they were having to sell their improvements or anything because they were running a defecit. I think they were spending all their money on upgrades.

I imagine AI is now crippled producing units it can't have because of the max units limit, so you should have an easy march to the conquest victory

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This can explain why the AI is just totally impotent after I kill 500-1000 of their units. Once you reach a certain point, the AI just doesn't have any reinforcements whatsoever. The main problem is making the initial assault where they have hundreds and hundreds of units that they have stockpiled over the last several thousand years and they throw them all at you. As each unit is killed, then another unit can be produced, but the real interesting thing to know would be which of the AI goes first (the first AI gets to produce his units, but the last AI wouldn't be able to because all the units are used up).

I'm certainly not going to be able to have 4000+ units all to myself, so the last AI's should be able to keep up with their reinforcements pretty well.

And of course, I'm suffering from the max # of units also. This is one reason I had an 'island blockade' set up on my island to prevent the AI from landing on the shores of my home continent. I can't depend on just waiting to rush something when a city is threatened, because the unit might not even show up! I should easily have 3-5 times as many units (or more) if I would have gotten all the units I had 'produced'.

Geez! That seems like an impossible level to beat! With all the leaders you generate, do the names recycle or do you end up with "New Napolean"? Wow, you are truly a god