As it turns out one of the vassals (Sury) wouldn't open his borders to me no matter how many techs/resources/gold I gifted. I ended up with a space race victory. Curiously when Mansa built the UN I was only 20 votes shy of a UN diplo victory. Couldn't gift the missionary (as it would be owned by Mansa, not Sury) and couldn't build a city then gift it.
The Apostolic Palace Guide
- Thread starter Yxklyx
- Start date
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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- 27,989
Suicide war run. Blitz into a city straight from a transport, instantly spread the religion, and abandon it just as fast
.Jedi_Otis
Diggin' the DarkSide
I've run in to a situation that needs a little clarifacation.
In this case, I was a full member at war with another full member. When the resident introduced a "stop war" resolution, I defied it, removing my status as a full member, and according to the victory screen, to voting member. Since that resolution, the war ended and my opponent vassalized to another full member. That shouldn't have anything to do with this, but I threw it out there just in case.
Also since the "stop war" resolution, 20+ turns have passed, ie 2 resolution cycles, and no new resolutions have been proposed.
My question is: what could be preventing the resident from proposing a "return city" resolution?(not that I'm complaining
)
Is my status as only a voting member because of my defiance an exception to rule as outlined in the guide? Or could my diplo relationship with the resident(friendly) have an effect on him not proposing such a negative resolution?
BTW, I forgot to check before I posted, but I'm reasonably certain his cities would qualify culturaly since they were originally his and a few are still pressed up against his culture.
In this case, I was a full member at war with another full member. When the resident introduced a "stop war" resolution, I defied it, removing my status as a full member, and according to the victory screen, to voting member. Since that resolution, the war ended and my opponent vassalized to another full member. That shouldn't have anything to do with this, but I threw it out there just in case.
Also since the "stop war" resolution, 20+ turns have passed, ie 2 resolution cycles, and no new resolutions have been proposed.
My question is: what could be preventing the resident from proposing a "return city" resolution?(not that I'm complaining
)Is my status as only a voting member because of my defiance an exception to rule as outlined in the guide? Or could my diplo relationship with the resident(friendly) have an effect on him not proposing such a negative resolution?
BTW, I forgot to check before I posted, but I'm reasonably certain his cities would qualify culturaly since they were originally his and a few are still pressed up against his culture.
Ghpstage
Deity
I accidentally came across something interesting by screwing up in worldbuilder 
.
Basically I had placed the AP with no religion and suddenly, met everyone.
.
After a little playing around I found this does happen with the UN, but is probably noticed little as 95%+ of the time everyone has contact with everyone by then anyway.
But in the case of the AP I found it gave contact between all members (anyone with AP religion in a city).
It seems to take a while to 'refresh' but that may have been caused by WB but it may happen when a new voting session is possible.
There are a few implications of this. For example, if you spread the AP religion to a backwards civ that noone has met yet, then they will get contact for tech trading which may make them more difficult to kill later
Your AP missionaries will be spreading contact along with their religion 
And I have a question.
On the assign city resolution, does the city have to have belonged to the full member (Civ 'Y' in the article) in the past before the resolution is possible, or can it be used aggressively to assist culture flipping? I have tried to do it but it hasn't worked so far so I'm wondering if anyone knows
.Basically I had placed the AP with no religion and suddenly, met everyone.
. After a little playing around I found this does happen with the UN, but is probably noticed little as 95%+ of the time everyone has contact with everyone by then anyway.
But in the case of the AP I found it gave contact between all members (anyone with AP religion in a city).
It seems to take a while to 'refresh' but that may have been caused by WB but it may happen when a new voting session is possible.
There are a few implications of this. For example, if you spread the AP religion to a backwards civ that noone has met yet, then they will get contact for tech trading which may make them more difficult to kill later
Your AP missionaries will be spreading contact along with their religion And I have a question.
On the assign city resolution, does the city have to have belonged to the full member (Civ 'Y' in the article) in the past before the resolution is possible, or can it be used aggressively to assist culture flipping? I have tried to do it but it hasn't worked so far so I'm wondering if anyone knows
Jedi_Otis
Diggin' the DarkSide
And I have a question.
On the assign city resolution, does the city have to have belonged to the full member (Civ 'Y' in the article) in the past before the resolution is possible, or can it be used aggressively to assist culture flipping? I have tried to do it but it hasn't worked so far so I'm wondering if anyone knows
No, the city would not have to have belonged to the full member in the past and an AP resolution can be proposed to assign a rivals city to yourself given the cultural requirements are met.
I just ran into this situation. My culture was swamping a voting members border city and the option to assign the city to me was available.
Nyarlathothep
Mazed.
Thanks for the great article! Finally saved my mystery "why doesn't the diplo victory vote come up?" waiting for hundreds of turns. Of course, I had too many votes (>75%), so I created a vassal to be able to win.
Man, it's definitely cheesy
. But I often try to end basically won games as quickly as possible, and the AP is so great for that - with this guide at least!! 
Man, it's definitely cheesy
. But I often try to end basically won games as quickly as possible, and the AP is so great for that - with this guide at least!! Should you wish to use the ban trade with civ X without suffering diplo penalties, cancel all your trade agreements with X before the proposal is voted on. This avoids the diplo penalty oddly enough. This can be used to isolate those members you wish to target for war.
I've run in to a situation that needs a little clarifacation.
In this case, I was a full member at war with another full member. When the resident introduced a "stop war" resolution, I defied it, removing my status as a full member, and according to the victory screen, to voting member. Since that resolution, the war ended and my opponent vassalized to another full member. That shouldn't have anything to do with this, but I threw it out there just in case.
Also since the "stop war" resolution, 20+ turns have passed, ie 2 resolution cycles, and no new resolutions have been proposed.
My question is: what could be preventing the resident from proposing a "return city" resolution?(not that I'm complaining
Is my status as only a voting member because of my defiance an exception to rule as outlined in the guide? Or could my diplo relationship with the resident(friendly) have an effect on him not proposing such a negative resolution?
BTW, I forgot to check before I posted, but I'm reasonably certain his cities would qualify culturaly since they were originally his and a few are still pressed up against his culture.
I lost a game due to this with the UN. The rule is the same for AP. You will not become a full member again until you vote for a sucessful resolution. This rule prevents you from becoming the elected ap resident.
See, what I would do to prevent you from becoming the ap resident is avoid proposing any vote you may vote for yourself. Even if that is a vote to return a city to them. Don't know if the AI is smart enough to do this or not though (there is an option not to present any proposal when you are the AP resident).
Jedi_Otis
Diggin' the DarkSide
I'm pretty sure you're right. I still remember that specific game I posted about. In that case, Capac never introduced another resolution and I was never able to regain full membership. If I had, I would have had the votes to wrest control of the residency from him after conquering the rest of the continent,
I think it's safe to assume the AI IS smart enough to avoid proposals that could allow a rival to regain full membership.
If you have the AP within one of your cities, you are gauranteed membership.
The example I took it from was the UN. I got beaten by a diplo vote playing as the viking. Pacal, the un leader, proposed free relgion and Zara yaqob defied. Pacal then proposed diplomatic victory. Because everyone loved julius caesar, they voted him the winner. Zara Yaqob wasn't eligible for the vote because he had defied the previous resolution.
Which irritated me because I was so far ahead technologically that I should have won by space race.
The example I took it from was the UN. I got beaten by a diplo vote playing as the viking. Pacal, the un leader, proposed free relgion and Zara yaqob defied. Pacal then proposed diplomatic victory. Because everyone loved julius caesar, they voted him the winner. Zara Yaqob wasn't eligible for the vote because he had defied the previous resolution.
Which irritated me because I was so far ahead technologically that I should have won by space race.
Is the Apostolic Palace supposed to behave like this? I didn't find the answer when searching the forums.
Setup: Hotseat, epic, 7 civs, patch 3.1.9.0
Apostolic palace was built by Frederick, Hindu. Besides Frederick, one other Civ and myself have Hindu as the state religion and are full members. All other civs except one have voting rights, being another religion but having at least one Hindu city. I put the defensive pack proposal on the table and it succeeded.
When it passed ALL nations now had defensive pacts with one another with the exception of Tokugawa since he had no Hindu cities and was a vassal of Churchill, basically bringing the game to a standstill. I thought that only full members would be a part of the defense pact. Most Civs that only have one city carrying the AP religion are somewhat hostile toward Civs that have that religion as their state religion so it just doesn't make sense to include them.
IRL a country wouldn't make a defense pact with another just because one of their small towns had some citizens that practiced their religion against the wishes of their government who sponsors a different state religion, so I don't understand the logic of making it work this way in game. I was way ahead of the other players in knowledge so the defense pact gave me the opportunity to beat everyone into space. My husband on the other hand, needed to keep fighting to have any chance of winning the game. With the defense pact in place, the game was effectively over since he wasn't strong enough to take on the entire world at the same time. Besides, he was also included in the defense pact even though he was at war with them just a few turns before this. Who makes a defense pact with a country who was invading yours up until last week anyway? Even Churchill was included in the pact although he was in Free Religion.
So is this really working as intended?
Setup: Hotseat, epic, 7 civs, patch 3.1.9.0
Apostolic palace was built by Frederick, Hindu. Besides Frederick, one other Civ and myself have Hindu as the state religion and are full members. All other civs except one have voting rights, being another religion but having at least one Hindu city. I put the defensive pack proposal on the table and it succeeded.
When it passed ALL nations now had defensive pacts with one another with the exception of Tokugawa since he had no Hindu cities and was a vassal of Churchill, basically bringing the game to a standstill. I thought that only full members would be a part of the defense pact. Most Civs that only have one city carrying the AP religion are somewhat hostile toward Civs that have that religion as their state religion so it just doesn't make sense to include them.
IRL a country wouldn't make a defense pact with another just because one of their small towns had some citizens that practiced their religion against the wishes of their government who sponsors a different state religion, so I don't understand the logic of making it work this way in game. I was way ahead of the other players in knowledge so the defense pact gave me the opportunity to beat everyone into space. My husband on the other hand, needed to keep fighting to have any chance of winning the game. With the defense pact in place, the game was effectively over since he wasn't strong enough to take on the entire world at the same time. Besides, he was also included in the defense pact even though he was at war with them just a few turns before this. Who makes a defense pact with a country who was invading yours up until last week anyway? Even Churchill was included in the pact although he was in Free Religion.
So is this really working as intended?
obsolete
Deity
Does Trading Open border for Open border count as a legal trade for this? I guess so but would like to be 100% sure.
twansalem
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2005
- Messages
- 277
I quickly browsed through this discussion looking to see if anyone had posted anything similar to my question, so if the answer is already in here, I apologize for reposting this.
But here goes. I'm playing with patch 3.19. I own the AP (Christianity), am the only full member, but all other civs are voting members. Is there another requirement for a diplomatic vote to come up besides all civs being voting members? I've played through a couple rounds of resident voting, in each case I win resident handily, but no diplomatic victory vote resolution ever seems to come up. Am I missing something?
In case it matters, the number of votes is distributed like this (Ramesses is my vassal):
Me: 306
Ramesses II: 16
Victoria: 16
Peter: 6
Sitting Bull: 16
Willem Van Orange: 7
Wang Kon: 12
Lincoln: 4
But here goes. I'm playing with patch 3.19. I own the AP (Christianity), am the only full member, but all other civs are voting members. Is there another requirement for a diplomatic vote to come up besides all civs being voting members? I've played through a couple rounds of resident voting, in each case I win resident handily, but no diplomatic victory vote resolution ever seems to come up. Am I missing something?
In case it matters, the number of votes is distributed like this (Ramesses is my vassal):
Me: 306
Ramesses II: 16
Victoria: 16
Peter: 6
Sitting Bull: 16
Willem Van Orange: 7
Wang Kon: 12
Lincoln: 4
dalamb
Deity
You can't have so many votes yourself that you can win on your own when the others all vote against you.
twansalem
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2005
- Messages
- 277
After a little more searching, I did find that information in another thread. I spread Christianity to a few more cities and within another 10-15 turns or so I won. I would say it is a good requirement. My only problem with it is that the civilopedia says nothing about it. It sure would be nice if Firaxis actually updated the civilopedia whenever they change something with a patch.
_alphaBeta_
King
I believe this change was made to stop people from winning just because they successfully spread their religion to only one city per civ. A good change IMHO.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Nice guide. One other thing to mention: You can't build the AP (or the UN) if there are only 2 teams in the game - there have to be at least 3 separate teams for these two wonders to be available. For example, you can build the AP in a 3 player game provided there are no preset teams, but you cannot build it in an 18 player game if it is two teams of 9 vs 9.
Great work though!
Great work though!
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