Game of Thrones

Hello guys,

As you may have notice, I am working again on the MOD. Direwolf & Dragons units will jump in the next version.

You may already have a look on them in the graphic section.

If I can make a suggestion, it's a little bit to early to work on the scenario. We first need to implement all the factions I have been listed in an earlier post.

So if you want to help, give me all statistic of units you want to see in the MOD. Something balance between the differents factions.

What kind of specials units / buildings ? How strong ? What cost / moves ? etc. For all factions.

Kwadjh said:

If I can make a suggestion, it's a little bit to early to work on the scenario. We first need to implement all the factions I have been listed in an earlier post.

So if you want to help, give me all statistic of units you want to see in the MOD. Something balance between the differents factions.

Click to expand...

I totally agree.

Will the new mod be Westeros only? We can provide ideas or prepare XML text for the new civilizations and leaders that need to be added, but the menu of civs will be a lot different if we have both continents.

It might be easiest if the new were based on existing civilizations... for special powers and color schemes and even to steal the existing art until someone kindly provides it. So if Pyke had not been designed yet, for example, I might have said "use Elizabeth as the base, swap the man-o-war for a kraken, and we're off to the races."

Assuming westeros only, the original v7 had I think 5 playable civs, I guess we would need five more; Martell, Tyrell, Tully, Arryn, obviously; I still think the Watch should be a city-state; the Wildlings could be a civ i suppose; I agree that for balance maybe Bolton should share the north with Stark. I'm not sure about Frey; controlling the Twins seems to be a nice city-state function. Oldtown should be a city-state, and we should think of a few more.

What are the intended number of civs and city-states for the map size we are using?

Borders - if we set the cultural borders, settlers need to be able to culture bomb! That didn't work very well for me when I played through the mod... For the first iteration maybe we get all the civs playable but no cultural borders so they just start of with their capital like a normal game. Filling the map with cultural borders makes more sense if it's also filled with cities and units for a full-mod.

Tech tree: what's the story on developing the tech tree?

The map is on the way. It looks like the one I post the 18 october. It's a big Westeros continent and the west coast of Essos with some city states.

The forcast factions are the following :
Stark
Baratheon
Lannister
Greyjoy
Arryn
Targaryen
Tyrell
Martell
Tully
Hightower
Frey
Bolton

I already develop a new techtree, but I have to add more content in the differents technologies. Ideas are always welcome.

Great! Please confirm which civs you need playable info on and I will get to work on some of the XML files. I will probably miss some stuff but it will make your life much easier I think. We can try to brainstorm the Civ units and bonuses here

Is there a draft tech tree we can look at? Since the game won't progress beyond the middle ages we should try to make more varieties on the existing units. So for example Brute - Swordsman - Longswordsman could be Brute - Man-at-arms - Swordsman - Longswordsman - Water-Dancer or something. There could be a second and even third-tier Axeman with the bonus v melee units... maybe an "Ironman" or a "Tribesman". We could add in some neat units like a Page or Maester that would be weak but come with the medic promotion.

Advanced techs on the tree could add in musketmen, for example (weaker than longswordsmen but no resources required, totally possible in the world although we didn't see them) or magical units that would extend the tactics beyond Swordsmen and Knights (sorcerers, pyromancers, Worgs, even rideable Dragons). The fire-pots the alchemists make could be like defensive cruise missiles, one-use, one-range, rain them down on your attackers.

Totally love Dire Wolves. Will only Starks get them, and if so we remove the Northman? The Northman was really powerful; maybe all Civs can have access to such a unit that is like the swordsman but ignores terrain and can move after fighting, the Hero. Withdrawing after fighting is a huge tactical bonus, the Dire Wolves should also have it. Also I liked your dog-scout, great idea.

I liked the addition of the inn and the brothel - a few more buildings would flesh out the tech tree well, perhaps a gallows (like a courthouse?), a guildhouse (+production and gold?), a raven rook (+1 per trade route?), a Godswood (+1 priest, +2 culture, +50% great people?), a bakery (+food),

I can also draft text support for the various units and techs, I know English is not your first language and it must be harder work for you!

Finally - the Social Policies. I noticed in my game the AIs were choosing "Order" frequently, even though I think two of the abilities were meaningless in the game (a bonus for factories!?). If you would like I will take a look at this and make some recommendations

G

Good to see that. I like Game of Thrones ;-)

Before having taken a look at the mod, quickly some comments:
So will there be a random map? I like random maps more, or is it a scenario?
If there is a random map, the night watch as a civ makes sense again, not because it's "realistic", but because it's fun. I do want to play as the Night's Watch (If you want to make smaller scenarios, a "Wildlings against the Night Watch with increasing barbarian pressure (=Others)" on a smaller map seems like a good idea). You see, I like "Civs/Policies/Units + Random map and smaller scenarios besides" better than one huge scenario

But I will try it out first before saying anything more.

Well, It's too early to really work on a scenario. For now, the priority is to focus on adding more content into the mod. More units, more buildings and more wonders. The new map creation is in stand-by.

Units : Name / Tech needed / Cost / Power / Promotions
Buildings : Name / Tech needed / Cost / Effect
Wonders : Name / Tech needed / Cost / Effect

For this kind of ideas, I need your help. The tech tree is in the second post of this thread. The picture is a little bit old, but it already gives a good overview.

Of course, if you want to work on the social Policies, it's excellent, I haven't think about it right now. I don't really now how I should include religion. Maybe throught the policies or the techtree (Ritualism / Priesthood / Fundamentalism)...

That's what I am saying. Having a set map is more scenario like and decreases replay value by a big factor if it isn't done right (See for a good example Rhyes civ4 mod). But you can of course adapt the Unique Powers more to the civs with the set map. But balance is a lot more important which again, it's easier without a map ;-)

So it is a decision to make, I just wanted to opt for a random map (balance wise).

As for the Religions: The easiest way is really to make them Social Policies, lower the culture thresholds but raise the culture victory threshold. This way you can pick a bit easier since we will not be using the whole tech tree anyways.

Have four religions that cancel each other out:
Seven: bonuses per population and for cities
North: bonuses per land, ressources, forests
Rhollor: bonuses for attack (like units regain health points when defeating another one)
Drowned God: bonuses on sea and for few units

The big problem here is then to balance it out with other effects and have a good round up.

Liberty, Tradition and Honour should be kept, they are balanced for the beginning. It's the same for patronage for the city states. The Rest is really hard to say:

Maybe combine some of Honour and Fascism and give one military policy to each of the Religions. Two of the Specialist, Culture, Commerce or Science will have to be spread out over the religions as well, while the other two can be kept as a whole, depends on tech tree and so. Order f.e. would fit quite well with the Faith of the Seven, not?

Ok, this post will be a bit long and touch on a few things:
the Map; the Civs; the Wonders; some Units; some Buildings; some BUG notes.

For the units and buildings I think it's important to try to place them in what are now empty techs (with no benefit). Also I think with only a little bit of extra thought the tech tree could return to four ages, with the final age being the age of magic (which gets stronger throughout the book and would give us a layer of new units to create).

MAPS
if the new map will be Westeros with a bit of Essos, I think this may be useful:
http://gameofthrones.net/images/Westeros_Maps/a-game-of-thrones-world-map-westeros-essos.jpg
In particular it has lots of city names for the playable civs to use

This is a good map of all three continents, although it seems to put Braavos in the narrow sea instead of the northwestern part of Essos:
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/5c1e48cbb3611b1c9518f4b33a11b7b5.jpg

PLAYABLE CIVS:
Of the 12 proposed factions you have already built the ones with *. I will try to prepare XML and text and so on for the ones I marked with !. Also, while I think the watch is ideal city-state, the Wildlings could be a civ as well.

Stark*
Baratheon*
Lannister*
Greyjoy*
Targaryen*
Arryn!
Tyrell!
Martell!
Tully!
Hightower
Frey
Bolton
Free People (Wildlings)

I'll think about units and abilities for them as well. The Night's Watch Ranger was a cool unit - someone else should get it!!

WONDERS
I think a lot of the ancient, classical, and medieval wonders can simply be re-named to get them in the game with little work. E.g., there's a colossus of Braavos - just change the text and it's done! You can also change:
the Hanging Gardens of Babylon to the Step Pyramids of Mereen, same food bonus.
Himeji Castle could be renamed Harrenhall;
Macchu Pichu could become the Eyrie;
Stonehenge renamed Fist of the Old Men;
the Great Wall simply "The Wall";
the Hagia Sophia could be renamed Baelor's Sept;
The Forbidden Palace can be renamed the Iron Throne; requires Monarchy.
Throne Room becomes a minor wonder.
The Porcelain Tower can be renamed the Maester's Citadel, and the required technology can be Architecture so there's some point researching it
Heroic Epic could require Music

It would be nice to see the United Nations adapted, perhaps as the Iron Throne, so you could win the game if you got a certain number of other civs to bend the knee. Not sure how that could work though.

UNITS

Naval units:
-create War Galley; requires MapMaking; moves 4 attack 15 range attack 8
-permit Caravel when astronomy is developed

Recon units:
Add Outrider; requires horse, requires Horse Breeding, move 4 attack 6
Add Squire: requires Heraldry, move 3 attack 7 comes with Medic promotion

Siege units:
-Scorpion requires Steel; should be between cata and treb in ranged attack strength
-Consider making Trebuchet range 3

Range Units:
-add Bowman, requires mathematics, between archer and longbowman
-consider making longbowman range 3

Melee Units:
-Halberdier - requires Feudalsim - like Axeman but higher attack power
-Man-At-Arms - requires Civil Service - Requires Iron - upgrade to swordsman
-Levy - upgrade for pikeman (or replace pikeman, make pikeman stronger)
-Water-Dancer - requires guilds - strong swordsman can attack multiple times and can move after attacking

Mounted Units:
-Lancer - upgrade for knight (advanced technology)

BUILDINGS
"Ballista" requires Metal Casting increases city defence by 8
"Godswood" requires ritualism, maintenance 1G, +1 priest slot/Great Person, +1 happy, +1 culture for working forest tiles
"Circus" can require elephant riding instead of trapping.
"Gallows" requires ritualism and reduces unhappiness from occupied citizens by 50%
"Guildhouse" requires guilds; +2 production +2 gold +1 production per specialist
"Bakery" requires literature, cost 1, food +3, food +1 from wheat and sugar resources
"Counting House" Requires Summer Tax, gold +2 gold +25%
Change "Jesting" to "Falconry", permits building Rookery, cost 1G, +1 culture per city.

BUG NOTES:
-Many of the new units don't have little icons in strategic view. They disappear! I use strategic view when at war so this is very awkward |
-Workers do not realize that a hunting ground is much better than a camp, and will build Camps over hunting grounds if you don't turn them off on automated!

Cheers

Oh, and Wildfire, requires Alchemy, like a cruise missile.

"That's what I am saying. Having a set map is more scenario like and decreases replay value by a big factor if it isn't done right "

Yes, I dont think there would be anything preventing you from loading the mod and picking from the new civs, techs, units, buildings and so on but on a random map, or on the Westeros map with random starting places, or on the Westeros Map with fixed starts for the Civ capitals (or rather their settlers).

I think getting that playable is the only real goal; setting up a mod that would have starting positions for all civs for a big game of thrones battle would be a secondary project for sure. Also of course you could make many starting mod maps for different points in the books, depending on your preference... but only if the mod itself works with playable civs and enjoyable units and development.

"Have four religions that cancel each other out:
Seven: bonuses per population and for cities
North: bonuses per land, ressources, forests
Rhollor: bonuses for attack (like units regain health points when defeating another one)
Drowned God: bonuses on sea and for few units"

PERFECT. It's exactly what I was thinking, well not the powers specifically but most of it. The Ancient and medieval policies can be left as is; commerce can stay with mild modifications, and there should be a modified order/fascism tree I think. That would do for the policies.

Techs should also enable picking them; something naval for drowned; Religion or Priesthood for Seven, theocracy perhaps for Rhollor, and ritualism for First Men (Old gods).

Excellent guys !! Keep up the brainstorming, you gave me a lot to mod for the coming w-end.

lawtalkingguy said:

Yes, I dont think there would be anything preventing you from loading the mod and picking from the new civs, techs, units, buildings and so on but on a random map, or on the Westeros map with random starting places, or on the Westeros Map with fixed starts for the Civ capitals (or rather their settlers).

I think getting that playable is the only real goal; setting up a mod that would have starting positions for all civs for a big game of thrones battle would be a secondary project for sure. Also of course you could make many starting mod maps for different points in the books, depending on your preference... but only if the mod itself works with playable civs and enjoyable units and development.

Click to expand...

Again, that's what I am saying, because it's a question of balance. I would like to play on a random map. Having a set map allows for specialized balance, f.e. not giving the iron islanders some sort ocean bonus because you can give them a set "coast way" to the -well- coast. I'd like a random map with balance towards it

As for the policies, of course my bonus was just a bit of brainstorming. The best is to keep as close to vanilla as possible: Lower learning threshold, somewhat of a balance rolleyes. For the rest I really need to play it first, but I'm a very busy man, you see

Gotta keep pushing for the Free Folk/Wildlings as a Civ. Mance Rayder is awesome, their society is awesome, and they're a legitimate force. Just because 12 is the minimum for a workeable mod doesn't mean you have to stop there.

I'd say... replace Otto Von Bismarck with Mance Rayder (because seriously, uniting Barbarians and fielding a sizeable ground force is exactly what Mance does).

Special unit: Giants? Mammoths? Either way, a slow moving, but very hard hitting melee unit that would probably trump traditional cavalry.

Sorry I'm not an expert on modding, but trying to get out the best ideas I can to try and help.

Second comradebot, why only 12 Civs? Because, IMO, Dothrekis MUST be a Civ. Ugh, I haven't played it for a long time so... were the Dothraskis a Civ? I think they were, but not being on lawtalkingguy's list made me doubt.

Great ideas, lawtalkingguy, but...

lawtalkingguy said:

-Levy - upgrade for pikeman (or replace pikeman, make pikeman stronger)

Click to expand...

Units: Shouldn't levies be a WEAK pikeman, not strong, since they're composed of untrained "smallfolk"? Maybe they can't get promotions or something.

Resources: I think we need a weirswood terrain resource.

Buildings: I think "Jousting Arena" should maybe be "Lists Field" to match GRRM's nomenclature. But maybe it's not obvious to many players what that is...

Techs: I think there should be a "Mummery" (instead of Jesting?) or "Barding" (instead of Music?) tech.

Hey looks really good so far.

Thinking about the social policies, the easiest way to maintain balance and add quickly to flavour of the mod would be to make cosmetic changes that keep most of the substance of the existing policies.

I really like the idea of having the iron throne as an equivalent to the UN triggering the events for diplomatic victory. Though I think it should be pre-built, or only available to be built, in king's landing. I also think that the Lannisters should be split into two civs, with Cersei/Joffrey in King's landing and Lord Tywin at Casterly rock (In the books they acted independently for most of the time).

JoanK said:

Second comradebot, why only 12 Civs? Because, IMO, Dothrekis MUST be a Civ. Ugh, I haven't played it for a long time so... were the Dothraskis a Civ? I think they were, but not being on lawtalkingguy's list made me doubt.

Click to expand...

I think (and sorry awesome modmaker guy if I'm wrong!) the current plan is only to have Westeros, at least to start with. Allows for greater detail on Westeros, and Essos itself is difficult to balance properly. It's very big, with few true Civs, aaand yeah.

As such, I'd say from the start the Dothraki won't be their own Civ. Maybe in the future if there's a bigger map, or at the very least they could be thrown in for those who just want to use a random map/randomly placed Civs with a SOIAF theme.

Barbaren said:

Hey looks really good so far.

Thinking about the social policies, the easiest way to maintain balance and add quickly to flavour of the mod would be to make cosmetic changes that keep most of the substance of the existing policies.

I really like the idea of having the iron throne as an equivalent to the UN triggering the events for diplomatic victory. Though I think it should be pre-built, or only available to be built, in king's landing. I also think that the Lannisters should be split into two civs, with Cersei/Joffrey in King's landing and Lord Tywin at Casterly rock (In the books they acted independently for most of the time).

Click to expand...

I kinda like the Iron Throne idea... and I'd say (if possible) have it in King's Landing to start with.

Don't think we should split the Lannisters up though. They weren't THAT independent of each other.

Posting just to say I love your work. Keep it up.

Comradebot said:

I think (and sorry awesome modmaker guy if I'm wrong!) the current plan is only to have Westeros, at least to start with. Allows for greater detail on Westeros, and Essos itself is difficult to balance properly. It's very big, with few true Civs, aaand yeah.

Click to expand...

Oh, whatever. The fact that the current version includes both continents drove me wrong in such case. I humbly beg for your pardon, sir.

I would love to see this MOD evolving and I offer my help.
I did some research for my own game and there is a nice map that I could convert to Civ. I can also help with many other aspects as needed. (Not art/grapichs).
Take a look on the map: https://sites.google.com/site/clashlegends/scenarios/game-of-thrones

Let me know how can I help.

John